Ep #94: Integrative Herbalist Kayla Kincanon

Integrative Herbalist Kayla Kincanon

Integrative Herbalist Kayla Kincanon The first step to wholistic healing is becoming aware of your body, of the sensations and messages your body is sending you. But to find that awareness, it helps to calm the nervous system. That’s where herbalism comes in.

My guest today is Master Herbalist and Integrative Life Coach, Kayla Kincanon. Kayla’s journey to becoming an integrative herbalist came with many ups and downs as she recognized that modern medicine doesn’t take bio-individuality into consideration. Today, she helps her clients end the war with their bodies, relieve their suffering, and experience a deeper form of healing.

Join us on the podcast today as Kayla and I explore what brought her to me and my program, the power of herbs, and why awareness is the true healer. Kayla shares her approach to healing, the framework she teaches her clients, and her passion for educating and exposing different options.

Kayla created what she had always envisioned, and I think her journey will inspire you to do the same.

Join me in Self Healing Masters, a program to heal your health, wealth, and relationships. Enrollment gets you lifetime access to my integrated healing approach so you can finally live your life’s purpose and help others. I can’t wait to see you there!

What You’ll Learn from this Episode:

  • What healing truly means.
  • How Kayla found her passion for herbalism and integrative healing.
  • The thing that’s missing from modern medicine.
  • What attracted Kayla to me and my program.
  • How herbal supplements can help calm the nervous system.
  • What people who are experiencing heightened stress in 2020 can do.

Listen to the Full Episode:


Featured on the Show:

Full Episode Transcript:

Welcome to More than Mindset. The only podcast that bridges the gap between spirituality and success. Go beyond the mind with clarity and confidence coach Kim Guillory and learn how to integrate your passion to serve with your skills and experience to create a business you love. Let’s get started.

Hey there and welcome back to the show. I have a very special guest for you to day, her name is Kayla Kincanon. Kayla is one of my clients, she’s been through the Integrative Coach Program and she is local to me. Kayla is a master herbalist and she has a passion for educating, for exposing options, for helping her clients support their physical body with herbs as she teaches them a holistic approach to whole body wellness or whole body healing.

And in the show today we talk about Kayla’s experience and what took her on this journey, what opened the door for exploring more than medicine I’ll say. She had a personal experience with her child. And she wanted to be more helpful. She felt sort of helpless or powerless, defenseless in helping her family and herself. And as she started to explore and really step into this world of, we’ll call it plant medicine, she noticed that one of the other things that was missing was the whole mind, body, spirit connection. And that is what attracted her to the integrative coaching.

And we kind of just talk about our experience personally and professionally, and some of the things that she learned about in the program that she takes into her practice. And also, we talked about a lot, and also we’re talking about her new store location. So this is something that she dreamt about but she didn’t think it was possible.

And it’s really interesting that our beliefs really hold us back from doing the thing that we want to do until we get the courage, until we get the confidence. And that is something that I am really inspired by Kayla. I watched her grow through the program and I’m even seeing it now as she opened the doors to her store front, and her confidence, and her passion for educating. That is something that we really have to start from, listen guys, this is the way you thought it was. This is what you knew.

But we are here to let you know that there is something different. There are other options. There are other opportunities. And we want to expose that to you and that’s really what we’re talking about in the show today is how understanding the nervous system helps you to understand your immune system. And when you can piece this together then you can take control or responsibility for your own health.

So I hope you enjoy the conversation. Come to the More Than Mindset group and meet Kayla, like her Facebook page, follow her, you’ll have links in the show notes and all of that stuff. So with no further ado welcome back.


I have Kayla Kincanon who is an integrative herbalist. She uses herbs to support the physical body. She has a holistic approach to whole body wellness or whole body healing. And we’re going to talk about that. We’re going to talk about what does the word healing mean. So first I just want to say hello and welcome.

Kayla: Hi Kim, thank you for having me on. I’m actually really excited about this.

Kim: Yeah, it’s so fun. Alright, let’s just kind of open the door with that. What is healing?

Kayla: It’s when you don’t feel sick anymore. Healing is when you’re happy, you’re confident in what you can move, and what you can do, and what you can accomplish without being hesitant or afraid. And it’s also not being at war with your body anymore, quit with the anti this and anti that, you’re just, you’re comfortable. You can do what you want to do, when you want to do it, and how you want to do it.

Kim: I love that. You’re not at war with your body anymore. Wow. Okay, I want to sit there for a second because this is such a big deal. I do believe we are so afraid to be inside of our body because that’s where the emotions are, that’s where the sensations are. And we’ve kind of injected, let’s just dive right in. So tell me again, you’re not at war with your body anymore, give me a couple of examples. Talk to the audience.

Kayla: For just very, I mean if you want to think back to childhood and school, people talk, you know, you take biology. And all of a sudden your body is this foreign entity. It’s not part of who you are. It’s just this mass of nerves, and blood vessels, and organs, and skin. It’s a very disconnecting concept. And then of course as you get older and you go through whatever injury or medical condition you have, again it’s almost, it’s reinforced. Here is an anti something to stop the pain, or an antibiotic, or an anti this.

There is this anger and disconnect all at the same time, my knee hurts so I’m so frustrated I can’t do anything, so let me take something to stop the knee from hurting because it’s holding me back. It’s stopping me from moving forward in a very physical sense. And the older we get and the busier we get, it’s reiterated and it’s reaffirmed across all walks of life that your body is something separate from who you are. And it’s something that needs to be just kind of forced into submission.

That’s what I see with a lot of clients, it’s like, “Okay, well my back hurts and so I need to make it not hurt anymore.” It’s something that you have to attack, and stop, and force it to do something that you want it to do, or to force your body to do something different rather than just accepting, okay, this is what it is.

Kim: Instead of recognizing it as messaging, that something is off, that something is severed or separate.

Kayla: Exactly.

Kim: I love the way you put that. So I’m sorry guys, I know we jumped right in but that’s just kind of how it goes on here. Let’s talk about how did you get into healing, or whole body wellness, or herbalism, just in general? Just tell us a little bit about you personally. Kayla, by the way is – she lives in the area, the same area that I do. So we’re in rural Louisiana and our culture I think is the same.

We’ve kind of we’ve been raised the same and believe the same and which is really the catalyst for the position that we’re in now is the things that we were told. The way we were conditioned to believe didn’t work for us, the things that we were told didn’t work. And that sent us on a journey to go and figure things out for ourselves; wouldn’t you say that’s how we ended up here?

Kayla: Absolutely.

Kim: So I want to just hear a little bit about your personal story.

Kayla: My personal story how I got started with herbalism in general was very much cultural and fear based. I was a young mother, I had two kids, one was four, one was a year old. That was my last year of college. And I was living 14 hours away from home, from anyone that I could go to for help.

And so when my oldest son got sick I did what I thought was the correct thing to do, what I understood was the right path you were supposed to take. So I just kept shoving my kid at the doctor, give him more, give him more, whatever medicines. Honestly I have no idea what he even took. I was just it’s their responsibility to fix him. They need to do something. They need to make him better so that my life becomes easier. And fast forward a few months, he had a very bad reaction to that. I hate to say side effect of, but for the treatments that I insisted that they give.

And so we ended up at Tulane Medical Center with a four year old that I thought could possibly have leukemia but didn’t really know. I just know he was free bleeding under his skin. And when I was sitting in the hospital utterly helpless, the doctors didn’t even know what was wrong with him, they couldn’t answer. I kind of decided that I was going to find a way to not give that responsibility away anymore.

I didn’t like not having control and then not having knowledge, and putting a 100% of his care and his physical wellbeing as well as mental and then my mental wellbeing in the hands of someone else in a system I didn’t understand. I’m not a doctor, I’m not a pharmacist, I just didn’t understand. And I knew that there had to be a way that I could try something else first. It was never a matter of replacing what is considered conventional medical care, it’s what can I do first before I get to that point.

Again my mindset even with herbs was the same as with medicine, it was a very chemical thing. It’s like okay this herb has this chemical which causes this reaction. It was still very physically based.

Kim: So I just want to stay here for a moment because I’m not sure I know the whole part of this story. So you were still looking for a physical solution that was a responsibility outside of yourself?

Kayla: I was but I was looking for a way to, rather than work against the body is to still work with it, but still absolutely focused on getting a physical response.

Kim: So would you say that – what was your thought, that there was a problem to be fixed, there was something that’s gone wrong, where was your mindset back then? You knew something was off, you didn’t know what the heck was going on. You weren’t really languaged even for all that was happening. You just knew something was off and you were feeling…

Kayla: My thought process at the time is still very similar to what it is now. Is that not everybody is going to respond to the same medicine in the same way. I needed to find a way that was going to be a little more flexible, a little more individualized to work with Kim’s body and Kayla’s body and Mallory’s body as opposed to just this blanket across the board, this one pill is going to react the same way to everybody in every situation. I was looking for very much a more individualized and gentler approach than just kind of a carpet bomb of antibiotics.

Kim: Yeah. Would you say that – I’m trying to find the emotion word to how you would have been feeling. Would you say that it was like powerless, or disempowered, or out of control?

Kayla: Absolutely powerless, helpless even. I felt very weak, very vulnerable. We were there and we were subjected to whatever chemicals that they decided that was needed. And that’s it, you didn’t have a choice, you had to take this because there was no other option. And that feeling of powerlessness and truly helplessness is kind of what spurred it because I didn’t want to feel that way anymore. I didn’t want to be a victim of my own…

Kim: How old were you?

Kayla: 24.

Kim: Just hearing you talk about it and putting the age together, and knowing our culture and environment here is it’s almost as if there was something you knew that you didn’t know you knew. Almost like there’s something – and I can relate to that because I felt that also at a young age when I was given antidepressants at 20 years old. And it was like something just didn’t – it just didn’t jive but I can’t explain it because I didn’t know there was an option. I didn’t know there was an alternative, why would I think that?

Kayla: That’s exactly what it was. It was like an instinctual, like it was my child so it’s a mother’s instinct is I can do more for this kid. I can do more for my son. I can do more for any future children that I have. I can do more. I just didn’t know what it was. And so I started out, is I went to the library and looked under alternative – wasn’t even medicine, just alternative period. And I ran across an old beat up herbal book and I borrowed it from the library and it’s been non-stop ever since. I fell in love with the concept. It’s evolved of course, but that’s where I started.

Kim: So the incident basically was the catalyst to put you on your path?

Kayla: Yeah, it was that fear. That fear that I could never do better for him, for myself, for anyone. That our entire lives were just going to be dictated and subjugated to something that I didn’t understand. I didn’t even know if I wanted.

Kim: Alright, interesting, I love it. So I guess I wanted to – there is someone else out there who needs to hear this. I believe that about everything that we share is what our experiences have brought us to, and the conclusions we’ve made, the new experiences that open up. And how we evolve from that, I believe there is someone else out there.

There’s plenty of young mothers who have no idea either, that could come across this. And then just that yes, yes, yes, I get – I feel that too. I know that too, tell me more, kind of thing to where we can kind of just guide through open doors, other doors. We’re not saying there is an exact or there’s a perfect at all. We’re just like hey, we were willing to explore and came across all this other stuff. And the reason we didn’t know about it before was because the culture was so limited. But I think that stands for not just where we live, that stands for everyone in the generations before us.

Kayla: And a lot of it was like an all or nothing, if you brought up herbal medicines or other alternative treatments, massage therapist, acupuncture, there was this mentality of you either had to be a 100% that way or a 100% modern medicine. The idea that they could work together and be mutually beneficial just was not even something that was considered. If you did herbal medicine then I guess you were some kind weirdo crack – hotheaded in a cave or something and you were going to suffer unnecessarily. And that’s not really the case.

There’s so many ways that what we do and what modern medicine provides can complement together and work together, and to create a better alternative, some understanding and sharing of information and perspectives.

Kim: That’s the integration that I find is missing which is why I’m on this path is having that bridge between the two. I love medicine. I love that they can fix my broken bones and that they can do blood transfusions, or that they can do, you know, there’s so much that modern medicine can do that we’re so grateful for and appreciative for. I think the problem is when we expect our doctor to fix our mental emotional, the other stuff that’s going on behind the scenes, when that part is not brought into the equation.

We forget that we’re going for what they specialize in. We’re going for a diagnosis and medication and there’s a whole other world out there that doesn’t require that.

Kayla: You’re right. And then I think too the more you become into awareness of your own body and the messages it’s trying to send. It actually makes you a better patient. So when you do go to see the doctor you can be more specific and more illustrative of what you’re going through. So they can apply their expertise in a way that they may not have been able to before, if you just go, “I don’t know, I’m tired all the time.” And just that’s it. They’re not a magician that can pull something out of the hat.

And so when you go too it’s, “Okay, I’ve tried this supplement, this is what I’m feeling, this is what triggers it.” It creates a more open dialog with the physician and the medical professionals as well.

Kim: Yeah. And we have to really respect their model, their model of how they treat patients. They haven’t so much time and they are looking, you know, it’s like our mind is focused on what our mind is focused on and what we’ve been trained in. And they’re looking for exactly that. And so I’m not one, and I want to make sure I’m very clear about this, that is bashing modern medicine. I think it’s the integration that’s missing.

When I did my health coach training with IIN years ago, that is what attracted me to it is after having all of these surgeries and taking so much medication and all the years of battling with trying to figure it out. And the one word that drew me in was bio individuality which is exactly what you are saying that drew you in. Isn’t that crazy that how it just kind of shows up in your life and you’re like, wait a minute, I am not like everyone else or maybe we are not exactly the same, why are we being treated the same? I see this, the same even, and we expect our family to eat what we cooked.

Kayla: One of the craziest stories I have is when I was doing the integrative training with you. And one day I was cooking dinner and I started laughing out loud and my son looks at me and says, “Mom, what’s the matter?” I said, “I can eat Brussels sprouts.” And he’s like, “Yeah,” and walked away. But that was a big deal for me because I’m the only one in my house that likes Brussels sprouts so for years I never cooked them. And then it just dawned on me, I can cook them for myself. It was this huge breakthrough that such simple things.

But that’s the beauty of what this is, is that this is integrated into your everyday life, into your every decision, into your every mood and state of place where you are. This is not just some, sit for six hours on a mountaintop and expect your spirit to leave your body. This is truly integrating into your everyday decisions.

Kim: Yeah, it’s exactly the opposite. We want to integrate the spirit back into the body. It is exactly that what everyone’s looking for. That’s what they think meditation is, I’m going to go in meditation. It’s going to take me off into the bliss. And I’m like, “No, actually we want to meditate to take you inside, to bring that together, to integrate it.” Be here now, be here now. We’ve evacuated our bodies through past traumas or experiences that we didn’t know how to handle or we didn’t know how to integrate, we didn’t know how to process.

And so that is the mind body mystery, it’s that disconnection, exactly what you recognized at the age of 24. I’m still fascinated by that, it seems I didn’t know the age or didn’t sit with me the same as it is right now. So let’s talk about moving forward from there. So you got interested, you went to the library, you got a book on herbs. You were fascinated, you became a modern day I’m going to call it witch because that’s kind of the perception of what you were saying earlier. Like you have to be a hippy in order to go and do all this.

And I’m kind of like yeah, bring on the witch sisters, we’re good, call us whatever you want to call us. It’s like yeah, we have some brews and they work. So let’s just go ahead and dispel, no pun intended, all of that. So you and I met a few years ago, you came to yoga. We did the fitness stuff together at my business. And then one day after yoga or during yoga you tell me that you were doing this herb class. And I don’t know. I was drawn at that point. You were kind of quiet about it.

And then I ended up messaging you and I was like, “I want to know everything. Did you finish, did you?” And you were a little distant about it, I was like, maybe she doesn’t like me. But I think it was you kind of coming out of the closet with this, yeah?

Kayla: It very much was. I was so locked into what I thought other people were going to think. But I was judging myself before I even let anyone else have an opportunity to judge what I was doing. I just assumed no one would understand, they would think I was crazy, another reaffirmation that I was just some weirdo. And so I did keep it very quiet, it was pretty much only in my family, or if people would ask me questions I would answer, but in terms of trying to guide or teach someone else. But yeah I did, I kept it quiet for a long time.

Kim: I remember because at the time I had started these wellness classes and I was looking for anyone in the area that was taking a holistic integrative alternative approach, like anyone to come and talk about what is organic. It’s just that simple. And so I was calling them all in and we would meet once a month and have this conversation. And so I was so drawn to you because I didn’t know anyone else who was an herbalist. And I was trying to like, “Come, and come and chat with us.”

And now that I know you so well I realize what it is. So I am kind of teasing you about it because I was the same way. I was so afraid. I was afraid of what religion would say because here still in Louisiana with Catholicism and yoga being wrong, or bad, or sinful, and mindfulness and meditation is like it’s all of that stuff, that it’s the way that Satan gets into your mind. Is kind of the perception of how it’s viewed.

And for me it was such a healing experience because the quieting down and understanding, all of the sensations that were in my body that I was running, from that I didn’t want to feel. The yoga mat gave me that placement, that opportunity to ground within myself. And so for me it was, I wanted everyone to know about it. I was like, “The whole world needs to know about this.” And having that objection, I’ll say, or that ridicule, or being told I was satanic was so painful. It was so painful.

And so I think I had enough understanding where most of my clients here are coming from about it, because I heard it also. So let’s go into once you became an herbalist and you did start coming out of the closet. And then you found the integrative coach training. Let’s just talk about linking that together and what it was that you were looking for, what is it that you found in this that made sense to you?

Kayla: It does. Where I started was I had gotten to a point where I made the decision that I wanted to create a business. But I sat on it for so long because I didn’t know how to move forward. And the timing was about I was watching you do the beginnings of your life coaching journey. But I didn’t understand it. I didn’t know what life coaching was. I didn’t really know what you were talking about, again it was one of those – a set of vocabulary that I wasn’t familiar with. But I knew that whatever you were doing I wanted to be part of because it felt right.

The energy you were bringing and the conversations you were having about alternative medicines and holistic treatments was something I was drawn to. But when I picked up the phone and called you, honest to goodness, I thought I was calling you to either buy a marketing package from you or for you to teach me about marketing myself. I really didn’t even know what I was getting into.

Kim: Can you help me say what you’re saying? Is that what you were thinking?

Kayla: Yeah. I was even at a point of I can hire Kim to sell my stuff, I’ll hire Kim and tell her what I’m doing and then she can sell it for me. That’s where my brain was.

Kim: That’s so funny. So she’s selling essential oils here, she’s going to sell these herbs too.

Kayla: Yeah. I was hiring you to market as my marketing person. And then we spent about an hour, an hour and a half on the phone and you still didn’t tell me how to sell anything. You certainly weren’t volunteering to sell things for me. But you were able to pick up on where my hesitations were coming from, why I kept wanting the how’s and wanting the how’s. And you kept saying, “But yeah, let’s talk about why first, let’s talk about why first.” And it just was almost like getting, I want to say hit in the gut, but it wasn’t hit like a lightning bolt kind of thing, is it completely energized me.

I was like that’s it, it’s not the building, it’s not the, what I’m selling, it’s not the how, it’s why am I stuck. And once I realized that I was stuck I was desperate to become unstuck. Personally I knew it was something that I wanted to bring and teach. And I knew it was a valuable service. And integrating the mind into the physical that I was already doing has changed things all just because my perspective changed.

Kim: Yeah, let’s talk about that. Whenever you were drawn to come in and you recognized that it was different than what you were perceiving, so you were like wait a minute, this is a whole system. This is wait, here’s the missing parts. Let’s kind of just talk about that. Because there is someone who’s listening who hasn’t figured that part out yet because you bought something on the outside, you didn’t know what was the inside yet.

But then once you came in and saw that it was all aspects, mental, emotional, spiritual and physical in the physical world, there was something that made the medicine make sense, made the herbs make sense, even the root cause.

Kayla: It started because I had such an emotional reaction to one conversation. My head was tired and I was frustrated, and I had a headache actually when we got on the phone. And when we were done my headache was gone away and I had tons and tons of energy. And that energy bled over into the next day even. I was like okay, well, this is something I can work with. This is something that I really want to explore. And then after our first phone call or so, you were bringing up meditation and the mind body connection.

And it’s just funny, so like okay, I’m going to do a 10 minute meditation. And while I was doing it my arms started itching. And I was like I’m going to try what Kim says, I’m just going to say, “Okay, arm, you can itch but I’m not going to scratch you.” And it actually stopped itching and that was my first step towards understanding that your mind can control your physical reaction. You get a mosquito bite, you immediately want to scratch. I had an itch on my arm that I wanted to scratch and I was just like no, because it’s going to go away and it did.

And that was my first like very baby step towards making that connection between the mind and the body and that you can direct and control your body based on your emotions, your mindset and your – I hate to even use the word ‘desires’. But it has to be a desire first. You have to want to it first. And once you get that desire solidified the whole world can open up to you, suffering doesn’t have to be a state of being.

Kim: I think what’s so interesting is what we desire, what we see as what we desire ends up being something so much different. What we think we want or what we think it is, because we can only think about what we’ve already experienced, that’s where we get our ideas from when we’re coming from intellect.

But once you start really creating that bridge between the mind and body, going into that quietness, going into the stillness and then allowing these crazy thoughts and crazy sensations to bubble up and not turn around and run, not put, you know, quit the meditation. Not get out of the whatever, out of the discomfort which is what we are so used to which is what makes this so difficult for newbies to understand. And I think it’s so important that what we’re doing first is exposing and then educating, and then experiencing.

Kayla: That’s exactly what that conversation did with you because I was looking for someone outside of me, something outside of me. It’s like well there’s something I need that I’m missing in terms of a service, a place, a building, something outside of me that’s missing, and that’s what I need to move forward.

And the whole idea of going inside and have nothing missing, I’m exactly enough as I am, was frightening, but it felt right. I was so curious about it, I was terrified. But it just felt like it made sense. It felt like the next step I needed to take and it truly has been amazing. It’s been fantastic.

Kim: So would you say that it was first like she’s successful at selling an alternative something or a holistic something, she can show me how to do it?

Kayla: That’s exactly what I went through.

Kim: And which is what we all do, and then turns out, I can. It was a matter of, and I can do it in my own unique way, because that’s one thing we’re, you know, I’m really passionate about is each individual that comes through the program leaves as a unique individual in their specialty. We don’t need Kim clones. That’s not what the world needs, that’s not what you’re here for. But that’s what our intellect thinks because we believe it’s safer if someone has already figured it out and they can tell us exactly how to do it.

And so that’s why we buy into all of that stuff, but this does the complete opposite which pisses you off, a lot of you really get angry about it because I don’t tell you the how. It’s the secret is in the now, is the secret is in the coming home to yourself, shutting off all of that chatter and then letting that passion, letting the potential bubble up. And then we start to nourish that. And at the same time we are pushing away what is the conditioning, what is not you.

And so there is this dissonance that’s happening the whole entire time and it is exactly what you said, it’s a freaking out. I don’t even know who I am, what I am, what all of this is. I don’t even know how I got into this mess, because we go into this nervous system reaction, kind of freezing up.

Kayla: There was, there was even a point in time where I started questioning, it’s like well I’m not who I used to be anymore, holy crap what do I do now? Where do I go? But the thing is, is that wasn’t true either. That was a thought. I am who I used to be. I am just more aware of who she is. I’m not any different than I was. But I am in the way that I perceive myself. And so that’s where the change is. I’m still Kayla. I’m still the nerd girl who freaks out over Harry Potter and Game of Thrones and all those different things. And I love to dive into the technical side of Mars.

My brain hyper focuses and I love that. And that hasn’t changed. I’m just learning how to incorporate something else deeper into those expressions I guess, of who I am, and what I like, and how I like to do things.

Kim: Yeah. It’s sort of a liberation from how you think it’s supposed to be and then it coming to actually just being. And then whatever that uniqueness is your unique blueprint, your unique design and then sharing from that place. That’s what the attraction, that’s what you were attracted to with me. I was like I believed in something so strongly and so passionately, and I was sharing it because I believed in it so much.

And that’s actually what attracted you to me, it wasn’t my success, it wasn’t that I could do it. It was the clarity, and the confidence, and the courage that I had, and it was in you, that’s why you recognized it in me. And that’s what brought you in.

Kayla: It was but at the time it was like okay, well she can do this so I have permission to too, without – and it took, what, a couple of months for me to like, well, I had the permission all along. I was the only one stopping myself.

Kim: Yeah. So let’s talk about what do you do, who do you help with herbal medicine, how do you help? Because your approach is different, it’s not just about coming in and so yes, we can recognize that lavender will help to calm the nervous system. When the nervous system is calm, your immune system is healthier. Let’s just kind of talk about – by the way, let’s celebrate, because when Kayla first called me she was considering coming out of the closet and doing something with the herbs. And as we talk today she’s actually in her herbal store that she opened.

So she has a physical location which is the thing that she envisioned, she actually created which it’s so beautiful. We’ve all been over and it’s a beautiful space, you have Mallory there with you also. You’re incorporating this whole body approach to a location that has not experienced it before. So that brings its own challenges. So let’s just talk about what do you do there? Who do you help? What are the problems that you see?

Kayla: The majority of the problems I see when I’ve got clients that come in, of course everybody’s got different versions of, but they all want to sleep better, more energy, lose weight, there is something. And so the first thing we do is I ask a bunch of questions. I pull out a questionnaire and it’s, “Okay, you can’t sleep, what does that look like to you? Does that mean you have trouble falling asleep or you have trouble staying asleep? Is it because your brain is running or is it because your body is restless?”

We go very much into the physical side because that’s the first step to bring awareness, grounding, presence. Then we come up with a plan, they’re going to leave with supplements of some kind because often I find that especially when it comes with pain and fatigue, the idea of going into that mental space, to do the mental and emotional work, they’re just not there yet because they need the relief from the physical.

So you’re going to come in and probably leave with a couple of supplements. But really what the valuable thing that you’re going to leave with is a plan of action on how we’re together going to move forward and go into the mind, body, spiritual connection. And so then that’s when we set up the weekly calls, some prefer to come in physically, so we do the weekly visits that way. And from there we adjust the herbs as needed. But the ultimate goal is to not have to be on these adaptogenic herbs, to get you just on like a side of maintenance.

Because at that point we will have addressed and gone into the mental emotional true causes. And so when you’re healed, you’re healed for a long time, it’s not something that you’re masking and you’re going to be back in next week for a different herb, and a different herb, replace the dosage. It’s not what I’m here to do. We support your body physically.

Kim: So I want to say what I hear you saying in a different way so that I can make sure that I’m saying it right. And that is you’re basically using the herbs to quiet the pain brain. You’re using the supplementation of the herbs to quiet the nervous system so that they can actually become present, because the pain is, or whatever the problem is, is speaking so loudly that they’re just kind of stuck in a spin on that. That’s all they can experience. So until you can settle that down then you can’t really get their attention.

So it’s like – I’m just going to use this exaggeration, it’s like a kid in a candy store and you can’t settle them down. So you use the herbs, the physical medicine I’ll say, as the supplementation to calm them down as you’re working on the mind, is that what you’re saying?

Kayla: Exactly, because if someone’s so – if they’re very much in pain or they’re very much – I mean they can’t sleep, they’re exhausted. Then the brain goes to, well, I hurt too much to think. I am too exhausted to feel. I need to just mask this and move on. And so when you support the body like you said, you quiet the nervous system and to just bring in, now that I can trust my body to sleep, now that I can trust my knee to move correctly. Then I can go into the deeper mental, emotional and spiritual side of things to figure out what the root cause is so we can pull it out and stop it.

Kim: So you’re basically working on their illusioned defense system, which is so hyper, so protective. And so you’re using this to create that space of trust. So we hear this all the time, calm the hell down. But they were like, “How? We don’t know how?” We’re in this reactive flight mode. I remember being trapped down with pain, I just wanted it to end. Stop it, do something, give me something. Put me out of my misery. You hear that all of the time, it’s real. We’re not saying this is not real. The gentle approach that you’re using is you’re actually teaching them along the way.

Kayla: It is real. I explain to people that the mind body connection, when I’m saying mind body connection I’m not saying you’re imagining this. It is truly legitimately real. I know you cannot sleep. I know your back is killing you. I know you can’t walk out of the block because your knee is in pain, I know this.

So using the mind body connection in conjunction with the herbs is not saying that you’re making it up. It’s saying let’s calm the physical side down so that you can concentrate and devote the energy that you need to do on the mental and emotional side so that you can get some true and lasting healing.

Kim: So whenever they’re using the supplements to calm the nervous system, therefore they can find the trust, they can find the hope, they can find. So that’s instead of it being band-aid, on top of band-aid, on top of band-aid, on top of band-aid, it’s actually okay, let’s just go straight for the nervous system.

Because whenever the nervous system is calm, when we get into the parasympathetic nervous system, and then we’re out of that fight, flight, because their attention span is all over the place and they’re so desperate. They’re hop, skipping, jumping from book, to doctor, to whatever the next medication is, is that, are we on the same page?

Kayla: Yeah. And it’s not a matter of trusting me or trusting the herb, it’s trusting themselves and to trust their body. When you get back into your body, when your nervous system is calm enough to where you can become aware of what’s triggering and what’s not, and where to go and move forward. That’s the first step, but it’s trusting yourself, it’s not trusting me, it’s not trusting the herb, it’s trusting that your body is going to react in a way that you expect it to react.

Kim: But it kind of is. So they have to trust you and your solution and themselves, it’s all three. And that’s really what I want to expose today like in this conversation. There is, you do have something that will help them and they do have to believe in that. And they have to believe that you are the one who can explain it, and share it, and teach. I think it’s three components. And it’s not an argument. I’m just saying that from my experience that if I didn’t trust you and I just heard it was that next thing and then I didn’t have the understanding of your solution.

Whereas that’s what makes you different and why I love what you’re doing is you’re telling them. You’re informing their brain, their intellect of why it’s helping, how it’s helping, what it’s doing.

Kayla: You’re right, it is. And then trusting the fact that I have knowledge, if you go online and you Google herbs for anxiety, you’re going to get 17 million different results and they’re all going to sound like they contradict each other. The difference in what I do is that when you come to me I know why these 17 herbs can deal with anxiety and sleep. I know what they should do. So when I tell you, “Expect this to happen in five days, expect this to happen in 14.” And those results actually happen, yeah, it is building trust with me and the knowledge that I know what I’m doing.

Kim: Give yourself some credit, mama, this is really…

Kayla: Yes ma’am.

Kim: I mean I think it’s a big deal because what we’re talking about here is the integration, the holistic approach and the specialization, each individual. You’re not talking about go online, look for lavender, everyone should take it. And then that’s completely opposite of what we’re talking here. This is individualized. Each of us are unique.

Kayla: Absolutely. And your body chemistry, if I give you something and it might not react in a way that you want to. It’s like okay, well, then let’s try option B and option C. That’s what the individualization is, is I cannot bring myself to say that everyone who walks in my door is going to leave with the same herb because that’s not what it’s intended to do. That’s not why I started. And I could never in good conscience even try that. The infomercials about come get this, whatever, and it’s going to work for 17 million people. It will not. It will not.

Kim: Right. And that’s the awareness that you had at the age of 24 which, how old are you now?

Kayla: 44.

Kim: Yeah, interesting.

Kayla: I was going to say 43, 44.

Kim: Yeah. So that’s what, you know, that’s the beauty of this being able to specialize it to tailor it to the person. And it’s not just we’re going to look at the symptoms and we’re going to give you this herb for the symptoms. We’re actually going to look at your personal experience and history. That is where the magic is I believe, but I’m understanding like if we try just to go into the gusto there and we just try to, okay, let’s talk about your experience. Let’s talk about your past. Let’s talk about if there was trauma, all of that stuff.

And they’re in this heightened state of emergency, of survival and they’ve been living with this for however long because what, maybe someone told them, “You need to suck it up. You need to ignore it. You need to keep going.” Or whatever their story is. It’s just the way you are, it’s the way your body has been made. These are the things that were suggested to all of us. How many physical therapists, or massage therapists, or chiropractors. You’ve got one leg longer than the – your spine is, you have – your left eye is higher than your right.

Just constantly pointing out these things, telling us that we’re imperfect or that we’re broken or we’re not. That’s what we’re erasing. That, if you want to talk about brainwashing, that’s what we’re trying to wash out of your brain.

Kayla: Because there are the belief that once you hit a certain age, whether that’s 35 or 40, “Okay, well, you’re 40 now, this is just your lot in life.” My husband just turned 50. Well I guess my shoulder’s going to hurt for the rest of my life. That’s such a deep rooted belief that in order to have the luxury of old age the price you have to pay is pain. And that’s not true.

Kim: Yeah, for sure. And so we can see where it’s going to require, like let’s calm here first, let’s get this done, let’s get this done. And then we start to open up those deeper conversations. But first just the awareness of the supplementation and how that is – them seeing it for themselves. That’s the disempowerment you felt at the beginning when they were just handing out stuff and you were just seeing the reactions from. You had no power at all. None of it was up to you.

And I love that you brought that into where you are now and have this to share with the future generations coming in, because it is just the way it was 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, heck, still in a lot of places still today. We are building the bridge.

Kayla: Even the feeling of I have the right to ask a question. At that time 20 years ago I didn’t even feel like I could question, “What is this? Why are we taking this? How long does it have to take? Is this doing the same thing as the medicine you gave him yesterday? Why are we giving him both?” I didn’t even feel like I had the right to question. They had a white coat so they were in charge and I just had to say, “Yes ma’am, yes sir.” And then walk out the door and be happy with whatever they gave me.

Kim: Yeah. And some do not like the questioning, let’s just say that. I mean we’ve come a long way. But there are some, there is, it’s not their personality even, they just know this is what I was trained for. This is what I see. This is how I treat and that is it. And I think we take a different approach. We do come from a compassionate, gentle, personal perspective. And I would love to see what we do as integrative coaches be in the physician’s office, be in the medical facilities.

If you’re diagnosed with diabetes 2 and the first thing, it’s just like this, go to the dietician and here’s that standard program again, this one everybody’s supposed to do. This is, it’s not tailored to the individual again. So it’s like yeah, that’s the food part. But then there is a whole mind, body, spiritual part then a whole another aspect to it. And I feel like there’s more and more integration going on. We’re seeing it in the coaching world. We’re understanding the belief systems, the root cause.

Hypnotherapy has become more popular, it’s not so taboo. There is some meaning to it, which we incorporate a lot of that in our integrative coaching. You guys are trained in really helping them settle down, tap into their parasympathetic nervous system, drop the defense. And then allow the story to rebuild itself, to bubble up. And we don’t have to go into, what was the story? Where did you go? What did you do? What did they say? We’re not going backwards. It’s actually everything is perfect exactly as it is and it’s going to bubble up exactly when it does.

And there is nothing harmful and hurtful about it, it’s just you now have the opportunity to experience those sensations. But I’m going to give you the tools and I’m going to be with you. So now you have the power to experience whatever happens from here on.

Kayla: Yeah. And the past is really, it’s another tool, it’s just a recognition tool. It’s like okay when this happened in the past this is what I felt. So now I’m responding in the same way. It’s really just another tool to bring you back to presence. But you’re right, it’s not where we go, it’s we’re trying to take a step forward to get where you want to be. It’s a road, it’s a journey and you can’t start a journey from 15 years ago. You’re going to start it from where you are and take one step at a time forward.

And that’s what I love about life coaching as opposed to some other things that dwell on the past. It’s like yeah, the past happened and that’s okay, and let’s move forward now.

Kim: That we’ve done, we can speak from that we’ve done, that we tried. And just I think this intuitive knowing that there was something else. And I feel so honored that I have all of you local and not local, those who are distant that have come into this program. And we’ve been able to collaborate together, pull our strengths, and our experiences, and our knowing, and understanding of our own personal experience and how that’s turned out. And I feel like we’re so resourceful.

Kayla: I knew you and so I knew that you were a massage therapist. And I knew you were really into health and wellness in terms of exercise. I was excited to see you talking about the essential oils and the other stuff. But when I started getting involved and saying, “Wow, I’m not alone.” And it’s not just you and I. There is a whole group of coaches here locally. And then now you’re going national with it. And I’m getting many people from all across the country who think the way we do.

We’re not these crazy unicorns that exist outside of reality. We really are true people having true experiences and using our various expertise to apply it to create a better world for our individual clients who in turn will bleed over and spread from there. So I’m really excited about the community that you’re building.

Kim: My experiences were so rich and it was hard to keep it to myself. And it was harder to share it with someone who wasn’t getting it. And so yoga did open the door, the essential oils really busted open the door. I mean I was playing with essential oils for 20 years before I started with the doTERRA. And I was doing body wraps and so it was all for calming and really healing the emotional part, but I didn’t know that then. I didn’t understand that’s where I was going with this.

And so we were doing these mud baths, and these facials, and I mean I had turned my whole patio into this specialty room and body wrap, and I’d rock them. And I mean it was life changing, it was so fun. But I wasn’t using it as medicinally until later. But just that actually was the medicine. I just didn’t connect it, I didn’t put it together. And I was like, “Oh.” Because wild orange and peppermint was like, oh, and it would change everything. Everything would look different. It’s like you change your perception.

So when I started with the essential oils, I brought doTERRA DeepBlue was the number one seller because it was all about pain. And what I found so fascinating is when I was sharing with them how it was working, how it was helping is kind of like what you’re talking about with herbs is I was like it’s actually not just the physical body. DeepBlue and the oils that are in there are really about the pain in the emotional body. And they were like, “Whoa, fascinating. When we smell that and the emotional body changes the pain changes in my body?”

That’s the conversation that we kind of started and it grew really, really, really fast. But then I felt I was, and I think you’ve experienced this also. I felt limited in this container that was just that, just that. And I was like it felt like I was boxed in. And I have some of you trained in all of these areas, which I think is also beautiful because we get to cross the lines with homeopathy, the herbs and the oils kind of all together. And we see the same exact theme running with all of them. We’re really looking to heal the nervous system.

Kayla: I’ve explained to people several times before, when you walk in and say, “I’ve got a headache, what do I need to take?” That’s now how this natural more holistic side of things works. It’s not you have a headache take an aspirin. It’s okay, what kind of headache? And then when you start going deeper and having those conversations the light bulbs start clicking. And once those light bulbs go off then you can go further and dig deeper and travel further down that road and get closer to the destination that you want.

Kim: Yeah. And I think the most beautiful thing is we – so we have an integrative healing approach to mind body wellness. We’ll just say that, we are not the healers, people. We are not the healers. I train healing focused entrepreneurs, they are not the healers. Awareness is the healer. Once you understand the way the mind body works, once you understand the root cause, once you understand supplementation, once you understand what we’re talking about today.

And you might be hearing this for the first time and each time you hear it you will see it from a different perception because each time transmits more information. And it changes the actual cells of our being, that understanding changes the cells of the being. And that’s when we come to that place, Kayla, you were talking about earlier where I’m no longer her, and I’m no longer her, it’s like in between. It’s because some of the cells have been renewed to this new way of being, and thinking, and knowing. And then we have these old cells who haven’t been transformed yet.

And so you can imagine there’s this dissonance inside of the body, in the cellular body, that’s moving over. And it takes, you know, it’s really years to unfold all of this, because you and I had connections. And then we didn’t and then we did and then we didn’t. And then you came in for a marketing lol, and you ended up, I’m somehow now an integrative coach. I don’t know what the hell is happening here. And now I’m opening this herbal shop, this thing. And then there was, again, there was a dissonance. And it was all, we can explain this, this is the way the mind works.

There was still limiting beliefs and there was a disengagement. And then there’s like, “Okay, okay, okay.” It keeps coming back to trust, and understanding, and perception.

Kayla: Absolutely. I mean there’s still doubts now. I walk in the building sometimes in the morning and it’s like, okay, what am I doing here and why again? But being able to recognize it and know what it is, where it’s coming from means that I can respond to it in a productive way. It’s no longer something that I spin, and spin, and spin with. It’s like okay, ha, that’s funny. You’re here again. Alright, let’s unpack this and let’s move forward. Just even the first time our conversation when I was grounding Kim, just that idea.

Remember when we talked and I was a spazoid? I was bouncing and talking at a 100 miles an hour. And my brain still runs that fast. But learning the difference between reacting to every thought I have versus responding to the ones that are productive. So that’s why I say, I’m still that same person just with a different way of doing things.

Kim: And it’s beautiful to have a fast brain. I have a fast brain. It is it’s beautiful. When we let that bitch lead us, when go all crazy all over the place, that’s when it’s not fun. But to actually, like that’s just our mechanics, it’s who we are, it’s how we are, it’s how we function. I love talking to people with a fast brain. But I do remember the conversation with you. I don’t even know if you had signed up yet. And I said, “The first thing we have to do is get you in your body.”

Kayla: And it’s nuts because I was an herbalist trying to get other people into their bodies and I wasn’t even there yet. But at the time I was still focused on the physical aspect of the herbs because I hadn’t had the transformation through the integrative process. So there was no way I could envision incorporating the two. And now I can’t imagine the two functioning, herbalism and the integrative side are the most beautiful marriage I think I’ve ever been able to see.

Kim: So for those who have not heard of this before and know what we’re talking about, it’s embodiment. If you don’t know what embodiment is, it’s when you ground the knowing in the body. It’s when you ground your soul, your spirituality, the essence of your being in your physical body. That’s embodiment, when you bring it all in and there’s this imprint of understanding. And so now Kayla had an understanding of herbalism and how it works intellectually.

But what she hadn’t done is embodied it on all levels, where it’s not just what you know, it’s what is, it’s what you are. It’s just a deeper ownership of the understanding. Could you say it in a different way?

Kayla: Fully embracing and incorporating it. I know you talk about a bridge often. And I am a book person so I do go to where I can think things and I know them to be true, but when I can fully feel it. And when you feel it, it’s almost like after you have a really good meal and you sigh. When it’s embodied that’s what it feels like. It’s a very satisfied content feeling. And once I had it once I can’t imagine not having it again. It’s like you can’t un-know what you know. Now that I know it I can’t.

Kim: I know, everybody says that once they’re in they’re like – it’s like you can’t undo this stuff, once you know you know. You can’t go back. I tried. You can’t go back and be who you were when you’re no longer her. It’s the craziest thing and yet you will try.

Kayla: Because for a long time I had separated integrative life coach from herbalist. In my head they were two separate things, it was two separate careers. It was two separate businesses. I was in so much resistance on incorporating the two. And once I did sit back and was like, “They are the same thing, they’re not separate.”

Kim: Yeah. It’s more like if we could see it as layers and stages than different entities. So it’s like you need this to start for it to build on this, to build on this, to build on this. And then there’s that embodiment. First it’s knowing how to process, understanding, getting the tools, the skills under wraps. How do I deal with an emotion or a sensation in my body that doesn’t feel good, that scares me, that I eject? That’s number one, like how do I deal with that?

And so you learn the tools and then when this stuff bubbles up you have the tools. And then you are able to what we call process, so you can process the pain. You can process the symptoms. You know what to do when you’re up in the middle of the night. You have tools. You don’t just have an herb. You don’t just have medication or a band-aid. You actually have the tools of what to do when it happens. So all of you who want to know how, but tell me how, I need to know how. We give you the how. If you’re working with one of the integrative coaches you know the how.

And then from that it’s like it becomes the next norm. You just know it’s in your toolbox and so you just grab it when you need it. And then when the next thing happens you do it again. So it’s like that’s how you process, then you integrate. You integrate the experience of what you know, what was, what is now and then you can embody it.

Kayla: The luxury of old age is not the price of pain and sickness, but that’s where you go back, once you embody it, once you integrate it then the whole world changes color almost.

Kim: Gosh, for sure, it’s like you’re wearing a different lens, a different pair of glasses. It’s like everything looks different. If you put on this lens and it was pink linen, everything looked pink it’s kind of like that. It’s like everything looks clear. You suddenly have this liberation and you’re not so attached. And you’re kind of seeing it float by. You’re understanding this how to witness without it being so personally exposed kind of like, or personally activated. It’s like that’s that, I can see clearly now, I wish I could sing I’d pop out a lyric, but I can’t, we know this. I can hum sometimes.

Really understanding the word ‘embodiment’ and yet not trying to attain it because it’s not something that you can go and try to attain. It’s something that happens in the process. And so the approach that we teach and Kayla, I’m going to let you give your interpretation of this. You’re not being put to the test. It’s just I want to hear it in your own words because we all have a different language from the experience we’ve had and that is the Punch-Line Approach.

And you said it earlier. I don’t even know if you know you said it. But you’re like, “The first thing we do is we get present. The first thing we do is we ground; we get home. We take the herbs so that we can calm the hell down.” And you’re like, “And then I take notes and we start.” So you actually have the process, just in your own way. So just kind of tell the audience what these steps, because now it becomes like this framework or this, it’s the go to manual that I pick up when I’m lost and kind of it gives me my starting point back.

Kayla: Presence first and always and then along your P and your alliteration that you like to do so much is the practice and the process. It’s not something that you do once. It’s not something you do twice. It’s not something you do a 100 times. And sometimes it doesn’t take very long. Sometimes it might take a week. But it’s a process and it’s a practice to learn how to be present all the time.

Then when you get to the U part, the unveiling, the unpacking, that can be painful, and it can be messy. But again after you practice it for long enough, there’s a part of my brain that looks forward to it because I’m like, okay, good, it’s one more thing I get to drop. One more thing I get to push out of my way. And so, but again it’s a practice, it’s a process, it’s a consistency. It’s not going to happen one time and then like fairies shoot out of your ears. It doesn’t work that way.

And then the navigating, but the navigating is the fun part because that’s when you’re getting to sit back and laugh at your own ego and make fun of your own thoughts when you’re learning how to mitigate whatever circumstances pop up.

Kim: Yeah, the navigate is I get to try something new and different, the old habit and behavior, let’s just try a new one. Let’s just kind of see. It’s kind of like that kind of playing. But it’s funny how we kind of forget to do it because that’s where we’ve got to change the neuro pathway. That’s where I went back and tried to open the beauty shop again, that’s where I tried to. I was like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa, that’s not me anymore, hold on, come back, interrupt.” Kind of put back in there.

So whenever you’re working with clients, let’s kind of get back to let people know how you can help them. So someone comes in the door, you do the assessment, you have the conversation, you tell them how it works. You for sure have some supplements that can help them calm down and start getting into it. But just give me a generalized idea of who you can help or what that looks like.

Kayla: Yeah. So most of the people that I come in with it’s really, it’s anxiety over stress. And when you’re dealing with stress, when you’re constantly under stress is when you end up with chronic anxiety. And then the anxiety stops the sleep, the lack of sleep causes the fatigue. And the stress response also affects your immune system and the pain part. But it’s such a layered, and it’s an accumulative thing.

And so that’s why I think the majority of my clients that come in with these chronic conditions are over 30 because most 15 year olds don’t have that accumulated stress factor in their life to the point of where they can’t function anymore. But most of the time when you’re older in life and you want to function, because remember, this wasn’t a thing, I don’t want to be this way. That’s what I see is a lot of layer, but so much of it goes back to emotional pain that’s manifesting itself in lack of sleep, lack of energy, compromised immune systems and physical pain.

Kim: Yeah, let’s talk about that for a second. So paint me the picture, I love what you said though, well, the interview we did yesterday online when we were talking about, I said Dr. Lazzaro was the doctor who told me, it’s exactly what you just explained. It’s the lack of, lack of, lack of, and then you kind of create this mess. And that’s where the illness and disease comes in.

And so let’s just paint a picture for those who, they probably kind of know it but we’re just going to do an elementary version. So you’re 15 years old, you’ve had some things, just kind of take us along the path of what too much stress, anxiety, then no sleep, then compromised immune system looks like.

Kayla: Well, usually – and I say 15 because that teenage year is when you start first experiencing a lot of things in life. And so you hear so many high school students say, “I’m so stressed out, I’m so stressed out.” But when your body’s reacting to that stress it’s producing these chemicals. And 10,000 years ago if you were running away from a bear, you climbed up a tree, you got to bleed off those stress chemicals then there was a period of rest following it.

Our society is structured in such a way that stress is a chronic state of being for most people. So you’re always overproducing the adrenalin, and the cortisol, and all of these different things. And so your body never has a chance to rest and clean itself out before it’s recycling them all again and it accumulates basically in different places. And the physical accumulation over a period of time, if someone is chasing you and you’re afraid, you’re not going to immediately be able to fall asleep.

You can’t relax the brain and body enough to go to sleep and then when you can’t sleep then your body can’t repair itself. And when it can’t repair itself it’s not able to defend itself from things like inflammation or from infections. And it’s just a constant; you never get to hit the reset button. It’s not like powering off my computer and restarting it when it freezes, your body doesn’t work that way.

So you have to create a situation where it can be supported while it tries to reset itself because that’s what your body wants. It wants to be in balance. It wants chemical, physical, emotional, spiritual balance. And so when things are so out of whack, the further you are from center the more difficult it is to bring you back to center. And that’s what the herbs support your body in doing is chemically getting you back to center, but the key to that is involve the mind, body, spirit side because it also sends visible signals so you’re supporting yourself getting back to normal, or what’s supposed to be normal.

Kim: Come over to the More Than Mindset group, Kayla’s there, I’m there. We do lives, we have these conversations and you guys can ask questions in there and we’ll make sure to address them. If you’re listening to this podcast now then you’re, you know, whether you’re in the group or not, just come on over and kind of because it’s like we kind of forget that beginner’s mind, explaining it in that way. Sometimes we forget to go back because we lived in that for so long.

We put our 20 years in and we stayed in, stayed in, stayed in and then we finally got to this point where it’s not even our reality anymore, that way of being is not even, it’s not even who we are. And yet we want to expose and educate so that more people can experience what we’re experiencing, but it is getting harder and harder to go back to that, for me anyway. I’m not sure about you, Kayla, if you can relate to what I’m saying.

And it’s not, like there was a time where I didn’t want to go back and think about that because I was afraid I would get sucked in by it again, so it’s not that. It’s not from that point anyway. It’s truly that my perception changed and I forgot I used to think that way. Is there anything that I did not ask you that you want to share that you’re like I wish we’d have talked about that or this would have been so important that I didn’t ask you that you want to share with the audience?

Kayla: It helps that you know how my brain works, so it worked well.

Kim: And these interviews get better. At first it’s like there’s this kind of like leading you guys along and then once you’ve done one with me and you understand my languaging then you can pretty much, the next one will be all about you and I just kind of bring you back. But when we were first starting, it is a little awkward to first be put on the spot and be in these kind of conversations which you did amazing.

Kayla: Thank you.

Kim: I want to just leave with one, we can talk about the freak out moment before because that’s what the nervous system does or we can just save that for another time. Let’s just leave with what are you seeing right now with this constant state of stress, with 2020, with Covid, with just all of the things that have come around this year? With your understanding of the how mind body works and what you’re seeing with this heightened state of stress? What’s something that you can leave the audience with if they’re experiencing this?

Kayla: Don’t over react. It’s okay if your heart rate gets a little high. It’s okay if you catch a cold. And it’s another thing I’m running across is so many people wanting to overdo their immune system. They want to take 15 different things that are going to increase their immune system. That’s not necessary. But then at the same time if you’re feeling sad, and if you’re feeling pain, and if you can’t sleep, and if you’re worried about your children, or your parents, or your grandparents, that’s okay.

It’s okay to feel the fear. It’s okay to have the worry, but just be careful that you’re keeping it in a realistic perspective, just because your son has strep throat doesn’t necessarily mean he’s going to die from Covid by walking across the street to get the mail. It’s that blown out of proportion reaction to ordinary life. Now everybody’s panicked and again that’s stress. When they’re stressing over that it creates more stress, which creates more harm, which creates more compromised immune systems. It gets to be too much. Real life still happens even though Covid is existing.

Kim: Stopping for a moment and being aware that these are just thoughts running rampant.

Kayla: Yeah. And there is things that happen outside of life that aren’t Covid related and that’s okay too. It’s okay to be sad, or afraid, or scared, or depressed over something not Covid related. Everyone’s so tunnel visioned on Covid that they’re forgetting the rest of their wellbeing.

Kim: Especially now, what, are we like nine months in?

Kayla: Yeah.

Kim: Alright, thank you guys for hanging with us. I know this one was kind of long, these intros, yeah, there’s a lot of stuff to cover. We’ve been working on this for years together and we bring it together in one show and be really specific and clear, it is quite a challenge because we’re trying to pull a lot of story together. So we will have Kayla back on talking about specific things like the immune system, the nervous system, things like that where we can target in on one thing only.

But today I really wanted to introduce the work that she’s putting out into the world, her experience and then integrating the coaching into herbalism. Bringing that all together and focusing on the mind, body, soul aspect of wholeness, because healing is wholeness, that’s it. So yeah, use the guides, use the supports to help put you on the path but ultimately it is exactly what we started this show off about and that was Kayla saying, “I wanted to be empowered with my own decisions, my own knowing, I wanted to be educated.”

And so I know many of you experience this also, not just for ourselves, but especially once we bring children into the picture because we are those mama bears, we really want to protect our little cubs.

Alright, Kayla, we will link the information in the show notes on how they can contact you and if they have any questions they can email or whatever, send you. And again I invite you to the More Than Mindset Facebook group so you can – I say meet in person, it’s not really in person but it kind of feels like it when you can link over and go friend them on their page. That’s it guys, until next week.


Thanks for listening to this episode of More than Mindset.

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