Ep #262: Make Money as a Massage Therapist with Nicki Iskander

In this episode of More Than Mindset, I interview guest Nicki Iskander, a 6-figure earning massage therapist in Canada. 

Nicki is an inspiring example of what’s possible in the massage therapy industry, so of course I want to share her success story. 

Not only do Nicki and I share a passion for becoming a high earner and helping others do the same, but we also share the passion of empowering women. 

The conversation orbits around the theme of women’s empowerment, success strategies, and professional growth in the massage therapy industry.

What You’ll Learn:

  • How Nicki went from working in a record company to finding financial stability and success in the massage therapy field.

  • How to invest in yourself to grow the business. 

  • The one mindset shift you need if you want to make more money.

  • How elevating standards, honoring boundaries, and transforming your mindset attracts better pay, better clients, and a better work-life creation.

I hope this episode empowers you to make more money! Please leave a rating and review, and share so we can get the message out to empower more people. 

Get a free 14-day trial of Boss Up Mentor! Register here. 

Listen to the Full Episode:

Featured on the Show:

  • Find Nicki Iskander on Instagram and at her website
  • Tune in to the free business masterclass: Why You’re Not Getting Clients and How to Change That: Sign up here.
  • Get a free 14-day trial of Boss Up Mentor! Register here. 
  • Access my unique framework used to sell over a million dollars in offers organically — get it here!

Full Episode Transcript:

Ep #262 Make Money as a Massage Therapist with Nicki Iskander

Welcome to More Than Mindset, the only podcast that bridges the gap between spirituality and success. Go beyond the mind with clarity and confidence coach, Kim Guillory, and learn how to integrate your passion to serve with your skills and experience to create a business you love. Let’s get started!

[00:00:00] Kim: Hey, Hey, Hey, and welcome back to the show guys. This is the first of a new series that is all about bossing up boss. That means business owner success strategies, and it is all about unlocking your personal potential so that you can earn more profit and help more people. So to bring it all together, unlocking potential profits, people, people that work with you, people that work for you, people that you work with.

[00:00:31] Kim: So I have my very first guest today. I met on Facebook in a Facebook group for a massage therapist and body workers. Her name is Nikki, and we are going to talk about success strategies of getting to six figures as a mind, body, energy practitioner, whichever one of those you fall under. So you might be a mindset coach.

[00:00:53] Kim: You might be a body worker. You might be a massage therapist. You might be an energy practitioner. All of that falls under the MindBodyEnergy, what do we call it, container, I’ll call it. So Nikki is from Canada, yep, from Ontario. And we’ve already had just a little brief, hello, how are you? What do you do?

[00:01:12] Kim: How did you get there? And I asked her to share her story with you. So Nikki, tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got, just how you got started in body work as a massage therapist. How did that come about? was So, Hi, yeah, so I’m Nikki. I live in Toronto, Ontario, Canada, and I’ve been a massage therapist since 2015.

[00:01:33] Nicki: And I came about this, I think, a different way than most people. Most massage therapists, I find, either go into bodywork because they want to help people, or maybe they have a background in sports and fitness. It was neither for me. I used to work in the music industry. That has always been my number one passion is music.

[00:01:54] Nicki: And I worked at a record store for five years. I worked at the largest record company in the world for four and a half years. And it was so much fun, but the money was not great. There was no upward mobility, no job security, and quite a bit of sexism. And so after four years of working at the largest record company in the world and watching my friends get laid off every year, I panicked, I quit, I dabbled in a couple other things, I struggled, I had a solid, almost a full year of unemployment, which was very depressing, and I thought, something’s gotta change, I have to go back to school.

[00:02:35] Nicki: And Job security was my number one priority, and that was the feature that I was looking for the most in a career. And I basically narrowed it down to massage therapy and the law. I almost became a criminal defense lawyer but I decided lawyers work too hard. They work too many hours for my liking.

[00:02:58] Nicki: And and I wanted more of a balance. So I chose massage therapy because here in Ontario, it is a very, very stable career because we are regulated health care providers, which means our services are covered by what’s called extended health insurance. So 85 percent of massage recipients in Ontario have insurance, which means.

[00:03:22] Nicki: I have something everyone wants and it’s free. So I figured it would be an easy sell. It’s also a woman dominated profession. So, for the first time in my life, I was going to be rewarded instead of punished for being a woman. And I really liked that it kept me on my toes. I wanted something physical. I was tired of sitting at a desk and I got spoiled working in the music industry, listening to music all day.

[00:03:44] Nicki: I really wanted a job where I could listen to music all day and you can’t bring a boom box to court. So that’s how I chose massage therapy. It was, it was for me a very practical

[00:03:54] Kim: decision. Wow. I love, I love the story. The woman dominated the regulated healthcare, like you should be the poster child for massage therapy school.

[00:04:06] Kim: It’s, you know, I’ve heard so much of the opposite. It’s not stable. You just love it because, you know, you want to help people and you can’t really make money at it. It’s mostly passion driven and I’m like, that is not true. It’s just simply not true. It might be your experience of What you’ve seen, but we have the ability to change that.

[00:04:27] Kim: Someone changed that for you guys to be in the position that you’re in. Someone fought for that. Do you know who it was?

[00:04:35] Nicki: No, not by name. No. No.

[00:04:38] Kim: But isn’t that interesting? It’s probably a woman.

[00:04:41] Nicki: For sure. Yeah. Yeah. There are definitely a lot of powerful women who came before me who paved the way so that I could get to where I am today and that other women could join me.

[00:04:52] Nicki: For sure.

[00:04:53] Kim: You know, everything that we’re doing in Boss Up is about normalizing wealth for women. Like that’s, it’s, it’s, we’re not a victim of it by any means. We just came into it the way that it was, but we refuse to leave it that way. And that is what’s so exciting about what we can do in any industry, but for massage therapy, body worker, I don’t believe most people know how much we can expand that.

[00:05:19] Kim: Like for one thing I asked you about, if you did any continued education, if people can work with you, can learn from you. And that’s one of your ways, that’s one of the opportunities that you created. So we’re not really limited to dollar for hour, the way that many people think the industry is.

[00:05:37] Kim: And your, your course that you talk about, like you’re helping them make money. And I think it’s strictly for contractors and employees, right?

[00:05:45] Nicki: Yes, I have a course. It’s called make money as a massage therapist. I run this course through a Canadian company called Con Ed Institute. If anybody listens to the two massage therapists and a microphone podcast, that is the continuing education company that is run by the couple on that podcast.

[00:06:01] Nicki: And they’re friends of mine. And. It’s so my course can be found at conedinstitute. com forward slash money. It’s called make money as a massage therapist and it is. I wanted to create a course geared towards therapists who are not in solo practice. There are plenty of coaches out there, wonderful, brilliant coaches out there for therapists who want to go solo.

[00:06:24] Nicki: I highly recommend hiring a coach. I wanted to create a course for people who are fresh out of school and working for somebody else. And because for me, when I graduated. From massage therapy school. I didn’t know what my options were. I didn’t know what to look for in a job. I didn’t know how to negotiate my pay.

[00:06:45] Nicki: I didn’t know the red flags to look out for. I didn’t know really what the options were. And I, Dramatically underestimated my earning capacity. And I took all of the lessons that I learned from in my years of working for other people and package it into a course where I teach therapists who are employees or independent contractors, how to find the best jobs and how to make the most money so they can really love their careers without burning out.

[00:07:14] Kim: And not having to own their own business.

[00:07:17] Nicki: Right, because that’s not for everybody. I love self employment, but I will be the first to say it is, it is a beast of an undertaking and it is definitely not for

[00:07:27] Kim: everyone. Only the crazies, like there is, I was just talking about this on an accountability call with some entrepreneurs that I mentor.

[00:07:36] Kim: And it was like, one of the guys said, there’s something wrong in your head. If you have chosen to be your own boss, to go your own path, to be an entrepreneur, to be a business owner, it’s not, but there’s a beautiful thing called intrapreneurship. And that is how you can be an entrepreneur under someone else’s business.

[00:07:51] Kim: It’s basically creating an opportunity where you can advance and expand, and both of you win. It’s a beautiful thing. So I love that you’re doing that. And you’re right. Plenty of coaches for massage therapists. I happen to be one of them. And there are a lot of us out there that are helping people.

[00:08:06] Kim: But how do you excel? How do you prosper as not owning the business, loving massage, serving people, and still wanting to create impact? Beautiful. I love that you’re doing that. Thank you so much. Another thing about this these interviews is these are all six, seven, and eight figure earners. So I’m not having a conversation with anyone who hasn’t crossed that, not because I don’t love you, but because something happens.

[00:08:35] Kim: Would you agree that when you went from 50 to 60 to 70 to over a hundred, something happened, you had to become a different person. What did that happen

[00:08:45] Nicki: for you? 100%. It’s, it’s a shift in identity. Really. Really. Becoming a six figure earner in solo practice, which most massage therapists never reach. It’s about the journey of becoming the kind of person who can do that.

[00:09:05] Nicki: And the decisions you have to make, and the changes you have to make, and the discomfort you have to move through, in order to be the kind of person who can generate wealth alone, with just my brain and just my hands. It’s It’s a wonderful, powerful feeling. When I was in my first year, my first year in private practice, I had a friend who did business coaching and I called her and I distinctly remember telling her, I will be thrilled if I can make gross income, 50, 000 in one year, because at the time I had never done that.

[00:09:44] Nicki: Working in the music industry, the most I’d ever made after bonuses, if I was lucky was 40, 000 in a year. And Toronto is one of the most expensive cities in the country, and probably the world. And so I told her I would be thrilled with 50, 000 a year. Because that just sounded like so much money. And now I make more than double that, and it just, it feels like the sky’s the limit.

[00:10:10] Nicki: It feels like I’m capable of so much more than I ever could have imagined.

[00:10:14] Kim: What did you, what did you think it was going to look like? Like when someone says six figures, a hundred thousand dollars, like, did your mind just think of like, Oh my God, I’m being extremely, extremely burned out, I’m going to work every hour of every day of every weekend of every night, like what did, what in with who you were, the personality that you were that couldn’t even see 50.

[00:10:32] Kim: What did you think 100, 000 was going to look like? Or could you not even imagine it? That’s a really good

[00:10:38] Nicki: question. There, sadly, there weren’t a lot of examples of other people doing that. Which is why I’m, this is why I’m so vocal about my income. Because I want to be an example of what’s possible. And I want other people, especially other women, especially other young women, to look at me and say, Oh, I can do that too.

[00:10:58] Nicki: And. Initially, when I looked at the money that I was earning from working for other people, like when I was an employee at a spa, or when I was a contractor, and I just did the math, yes, it was going to take working a lot of hours to make the kind of money that I really wanted. When I went solo, and again, did the math, it’s really, it’s all math.

[00:11:20] Nicki: Numbers is all just It’s just math. Money is just math. Everything else is drama. So once I really sat down and did the math and said, okay, what are my goals? I want to work this many hours. I want to take this much vacation, and I want to gross this much income. And I just plugged the numbers in, and that gave me, that told me how much I needed to charge basically.

[00:11:42] Nicki: And then I needed to become the therapist who was good enough at communicating the value I provide to the right people in order to get people paying me higher than average rates. And Yeah, so I just sat down, did the math and got really skilled at marketing and sales and communication and copywriting and slowly over several years, raised my rates multiple times.

[00:12:07] Nicki: I raised my rates five times in the past five years and got to the point where I became a six figure earner working part time. So I work four days a week and nine months a year. So that’s a three day weekend every weekend, three months of vacation. And if you do the math, I actually take more days off in a year than I work.

[00:12:28] Nicki: It’s about 200 days off

[00:12:30] Kim: work every year. Amazing. And what did you, so for those who listen, who came to the goals workshop recently, which she just described, because I really think this is universal. Like I love coaching. I love mentoring. I love like the boss up strategy. It’s like, there are people who have been successful that can lead the way.

[00:12:50] Kim: Very hard to find exactly what you said. I feel the same way. If I had had an example of how to stay married, how to be in business, how to make six figures. It seemed like it would have been a lot easier, right? Because we didn’t have even the possibility of it in our, our understanding. And once you do it, you’re like, everyone should know this.

[00:13:08] Kim: It should be illegal not to know this. No woman should earn under 50, 000. A working woman, especially a mother. Like I’m just like non tolerable about that stuff. So love all of that. My last question for you on that process is what did you have to give up? What did you have to quit doing? What did you have to decide not to do ever again in order to get there?

[00:13:30] Kim: So if you were at 40, 000, decided to get, go to a hundred thousand, you decided, you figured out the math, the math and the path, you just said it. And your exact words, I had to become the person who does it. The last step to that is I had to quit doing something else. What was that for you?

[00:13:50] Nicki: That is a really good question.

[00:13:53] Nicki: The first thing that comes to mind, and this is something that I tell people a lot, especially women, if you want to make excellent money, you have to give up the need to be liked by everyone. Ooh,

[00:14:08] Kim: guys, that one’s hard.

[00:14:09] Nicki: You can’t have both. There is nothing that any of us can do. Or any of us can say that will please everyone.

[00:14:21] Nicki: And I think that’s excellent news. Because once you really internalize that belief, that I can’t please everyone, Then I’m free. I can do whatever I want because I can’t please everyone anyway. So why undersell myself? Why undercharge? Why work days and hours that I don’t want to? Why work with people that I don’t want to work with?

[00:14:49] Kim: People that are not available for the service that you’re now offering. There is

[00:14:55] Nicki: so much freedom. In letting go of the need to be liked or the need for approval. I don’t need anybody else’s approval about my own and I operate with absolute integrity, but I always tell people my favorite word is no. And I honestly think that that is one of the biggest keys to my success and not just in business.

[00:15:16] Nicki: I’m also very fit fitness. Same thing. I say, no, I say no to staying up late. I say no to drinking alcohol on weekdays. I say no to eating pizza at one in the morning. You know, I say no to outings with friends. If it’s at the same time that I’m meeting my personal trainer.

[00:15:33] Kim: Oh, so good. That’s the discipline.

[00:15:35] Kim: The discipline equals the freedom. Love, love, love. Do you guys love her? Like seriously, this was like the best first pick. I knew the minute we got on, I think it was in Miami whenever we talked, we just got on a chat. I was like, Oh yeah, this is happening. I love the attitude. Your mindset is sharp. You’ve, you, you’re super clear, simple and helpful.

[00:15:59] Kim: You’re willing to share so that other people can also experience this. So I’m just kind of toot my own horn right now. Cause if you have a horn, I mean, why not toot it? That’s, I did a great job picking the right person. So thank you.

[00:16:12] Nicki: I appreciate that so much. Yeah, I’m so happy we connected. Our mission is aligned.

[00:16:16] Nicki: When I first became a massage therapist, it was all about me. I just needed a job. I was struggling financially. I, it was hard to find work. I was working in entertainment. I had a really a rough couple of years and I just, I wanted a job. I just wanted a job. I wanted a steady paycheck. I just, I wanted to be able to pay my bills and live comfortably and, and know that.

[00:16:39] Nicki: That I could get work and I, I never envisioned that coming up on nine years later, I would be what’s called a massage celebrity. I’ve been called a massage celebrity more than once, and that I would be a source of inspiration to, to other women. And that I always say massage is my job, inspiring women, women’s empowerment and closing the gender pay gap.

[00:17:09] Nicki: That is my mission.

[00:17:11] Kim: So good. So good. You said two things that brought, brought me to, to believe this. You didn’t feel like you were entitled and you were willing to do whatever it took for that steady paycheck, for that consistency. Is that true? Yeah.

[00:17:25] Nicki: Yeah. I think that’s, that’s the big one. I, I, I try not to come at anything from a place of entitlement or deserving.

[00:17:35] Nicki: There’s a difference between wanting something and feeling like you’re owed something. And. That’s why I chose job security because I chased my passion for years and years. I worked in the music industry. It, it brought me joy. But nobody, nobody owes me a career in my passion with lots of money and financial security.

[00:18:01] Nicki: I am not owed that. So I, I decided to, if the cards are stacked against me because I’m a woman of color, Then I’m going to go where the deck is stacked in my favor, woman dominated industry, where I’m a regulated healthcare provider. I have a certificate with my name on it that says that I’m qualified to do something that somebody else is not.

[00:18:23] Nicki: I can make my own hours. I can set my own rates. And I can choose who I want to work with.

[00:18:30] Kim: So what I’m hearing is you played and took advantage of the rules of the material. 100 percent. So many people want to fight it. And I quit fighting it and trying to get them to speak your language. These are the rules.

[00:18:43] Kim: That the majority play by, you took full advantage, you learned how to play the game, you stacked and went for it. Yeah.

[00:18:53] Nicki: And you, you can still fight for. You are when you win. A world that you want to be in. Like, I can still fight for anti sexism, anti racism, anti homophobia while working the system to my advantage because that’s the current reality that we live in.

[00:19:11] Nicki: So given that I live in a sexist society, I wanted

[00:19:15] Kim: to go where that was

[00:19:17] Nicki: going to actually

[00:19:18] Kim: help me. Yeah. You actually can’t win when you’re fighting without winning. Like you have to position yourself. You had to like, I think that’s what some people don’t see about money is the opportunity and the leverage it gives you.

[00:19:33] Kim: That success gives you where you’re out. You are free. You have figured out something. You are empowered. You are responsible. You took that responsibility to play, to figure that out, to go with those rules, to work it for you. So you could have a stage to speak. So you could have an audience. So you could get on podcasts.

[00:19:51] Kim: So you could get on stages. You can’t do it from the other side. You have to check in on your think, right? Your attitude. And you can’t bring that entitled bullshit with you. Love it. Yeah. Ah, so good. Yeah. I’m going to go backwards a little bit because I had a question for you. And the question was about the giving up.

[00:20:13] Kim: And so I’m curious about, this has obviously been important to you. The need to be liked is something that was important to you at one time and like you seem very free of it now. You seem to be very empowered by that. But because you mentioned it, that gives me the indication that it was a battle maybe at one time that you had to come to a conclusion you had to come to.

[00:20:35] Kim: I,

[00:20:35] Nicki: I wouldn’t say so much that it was a battle. Like, I’ve never really identified as a people pleaser, which I think is kind of a plague in our profession. It definitely was something that I had to work on and tweak and focus on a little bit. Like, really, what are my goals? And what am I going to have to do to get them?

[00:20:56] Nicki: And what am I going to have to sacrifice to get them? I think that’s harder for a lot of other women than it is for me. And I hate to say this, Because I am a feminist through and through, but I do believe that one of the reasons why I’m, I think, naturally a little more assertive is because I grew up surrounded by men.

[00:21:21] Nicki: I find that I have a more masculine approach to things. And that has

[00:21:27] Kim: helped me. Yeah, I agree. Agreed. As, as I started to bring more of that in, it has a hundred percent helped me. Classic people pleaser here, by the way. It has been the, probably the hardest thing for me to understand and learn. Even like right now I’m changing my business model and having to like not cater to it.

[00:21:47] Kim: Like everyone needs to come. I need to stop and slow everything down to make sure there’s no one left behind. That’s you’re right. It is. It’s the industry has played with that, but not just this industry, the, all of the helpers, the healers, the, the coaches, the, like it’s, it’s all the, the medical practitioners, many, many, many vets, veterinarians.

[00:22:08] Kim: We see a lot of it’s, you know, there’s a lot of other industries that it’s there too. It seems to be the caring and nurturing part that it’s, I call it the wounded healer. That’s until we heal that within ourself. We continue to reflect it and we continue to give into it and play the game until we do our own work.

[00:22:24] Kim: And then we’re no longer entitled. We’re actually empowered instead. Good for you. I’m glad to hear it. I love being in conversation with people who don’t because it was really. It’s a very hard thing to get beyond. And I still, I feel like I still have some of it to work through. Yeah. We,

[00:22:42] Nicki: we all have our demons, you know, there’s always, there’s always work to be done.

[00:22:46] Kim: So from here, let’s talk about at what point or to what awareness did you come to, to realize, holy smokes. I can do this and so much more. Do you remember the moment? Do you remember the year? Was it looking at your bank account? Was it looking at your appointment book? Like when did you come to, cause you didn’t just all of a sudden, like, I’m going to be a massage therapist and I’m going to work part of the year and I’m going to make over six figures.

[00:23:13] Kim: That probably didn’t happen at onset. Yeah, no, that definitely was

[00:23:17] Nicki: a few years in the making. I do remember the moment that I hit my first six figure year because it was the first, not just the first six figure year as a massage therapist, it was the first six figure year of my entire life. I’d never made that much money in my life.

[00:23:31] Nicki: So it’s definitely a momentous occasion. And I had set a goal. So I hit a landmark birthday in 2021 and my birthday is in September at the end of September. And I had set a personal goal that I wanted to gross a hundred thousand dollars in 12 consecutive months. By my birthday. So by September 29th, 2021, I wanted to have grossed at least 100, 000 in the previous 12 consecutive months.

[00:24:04] Nicki: So from the previous, you know, September 30th, basically. And I believe it was, it was in August. I think it was the end of August. So a month early, I had grossed 104, 000. So I hit that goal. I exceeded the goal with a month to spare. The first person I contacted was my business coach because I don’t think I could have done it without her.

[00:24:32] Nicki: And then I called my mom. And then I share a house with my brother. He, he, I, he lives upstairs and I went upstairs and I told him what happened and I burst into tears because. My father was an immigrant and an entrepreneur left Egypt with eight dollars in his pocket, moved to Canada, made millions, and he passed away seven years ago from cancer, and so he died before I opened my private practice.

[00:25:05] Nicki: I was already a massage therapist, I was already valedictorian in my graduating class, he came to see my speech, he knew that my plan was to run my own business. But he didn’t see me do it. And I really, really wish he could have seen me do it. So I just collapsed it in my brother’s arms and I cried. And then I bought myself a thousand dollar espresso machine to celebrate because my dad loved fancy espresso and, and I thought that that was something that he would be really, really proud of is his baby girl, you know, buying her own thousand dollar espresso maker when just a few years prior he was paying my rent

[00:25:43] Kim: because I was broke.

[00:25:45] Kim: Oh my God. It’s such a beautiful story.

[00:25:48] Kim: I wanna move into the feeling of that, like you said, I wept. It, it, there’s something surreal about hitting these money markers, guys, that if you haven’t gotten there yet, it’s, it was, I was taken by surprise, as you probably were too. There’s something about the moment of arrival that, that happens in the nervous system.

[00:26:09] Kim: There’s this thing, and if you’re not aware of it, you’ll go into sabotaging it. And it’s about acclimating the nervous system to be in success. There’s something. Would you agree? Did that happen with you? Did you feel that? It’s like you knew you were going to make it, and then you do, and there’s a moment where your mind and your body have to catch up.

[00:26:29] Kim: To each other, like the reality of it happening, and then the sensation of it happening, and then the belief around you. What was that experience like for you? Yeah,

[00:26:39] Nicki: I mean like I said, I cried. I just, I

[00:26:41] Kim: It was a relief, or a release? It was, it was pride,

[00:26:47] Nicki: part of it. And again, just that feeling of, Wow. My, my, my dad would have loved this.

[00:26:54] Nicki: Like, that would have been such a magical moment. Like, my mom was happy for me, but she’s not a businesswoman.

[00:27:00] Kim: They just don’t get us, those non business people. Yeah.

[00:27:03] Nicki: I love her, but she doesn’t get it. And this sort of feeling of, like an opening, like an expansion of what else can I do? Because once I hit that, then, so I hit that in 12 consecutive months, but we’re talking August, I still had a few months to go for the rest of the year.

[00:27:23] Nicki: And I thought, okay, not only do I want to hit six figures in 12 consecutive months by my birthday, which I did, now I want to hit six figures for the calendar year as well. Because I hadn’t yet. So I wanted to hit 100, 000 for the calendar year of 2021. And then I did that by December. Like, the beginning of December.

[00:27:41] Nicki: And I had a month to spare. So then I thought, Okay, I want to hit 110, 000 for the calendar year of 2021. And then I did that. So, the goalpost kind of moves once you hit those markers. You just keep wanting more. And I try to be ambitious. Not from a place of feeling, of lack, or feeling like it’s never enough.

[00:28:06] Nicki: But from a place of, what, what else can I

[00:28:10] Kim: do? It’s the possibility. It’s the possibility. Yeah. And potential. Hell, what else? What, what other potential is untapped in here? I, I agree. I, I remember the moment too, and it was, it’s the possibility. And then, what else, like, I could probably be the president. Yeah, I could probably be the president.

[00:28:29] Kim: This crazy, I was like, if teachers would have known my talent, would have understood me because I was such a terrible student. I was like, what could I have been? Like, what? If someone, or myself, or any kind of acknowledgement, right? Like, once you see and hit, you, this is the part, guys, I’m talking about, with the six figures, that I don’t know why we use that as a marker.

[00:28:49] Kim: Probably because most people don’t make it, ever. Like we are top of the, you call us a high earner. Like there’s, there’s something that happens for the individual and tell me if you agree or disagree. To receive, have, hold, contain there. It’s not just getting a hundred thousand dollars. You could sell a house.

[00:29:08] Kim: You could sell it. There’s things you can sell, get a hundred thousand dollars. This is something about having it and keeping it. So it’s like people who win the lottery and then they’re broker than ever. They couldn’t have, they couldn’t hold, they couldn’t contain. Something has to happen within us and I was talking to my mentor this week.

[00:29:25] Kim: She’s at 51 million, her goal was 100 million and then she got an offer to buy her business for multiple hundreds of millions and realized in that moment, see it’s not the way she thought she was going to do it, but she did do it. She did do it. She created value in the world to that capacity and she said the same thing.

[00:29:46] Kim: She just had to like, take a moment. And I like the release that I think the tears, the crying is part of the emotional release animals know to go shake it off. Our body has to figure out how to release that. So I’m just curious if you kind of see it the same way or if this is my mind making up stories, but it’s.

[00:30:05] Kim: It’s the way it plays out that I’ve experienced and seen many others do also.

[00:30:12] Nicki: Yeah. I, I always say, I mean, congratulations to your, your mentor. That’s amazing. That’s inspiring. I always say money comes from creating value and there are so, so many. People, women, especially massage therapists, especially who say, it’s not about the money.

[00:30:31] Nicki: I just want to help people. And I always say money comes from creating value.

[00:30:38] Kim: The, the best

[00:30:40] Nicki: way, the best way to make excellent money is to get really, really good at helping people. If you’re earning good money. That means that you’re helping people. Because they’re not going to pay you if you’re not. And I also say, the solution to poverty isn’t more of it.

[00:30:57] Nicki: I help so many more people now that I’m a high earner. Because my taxes have gone up. So I’m contributing more to social services just by the Phenomenal taxes that I pay, because welcome to Canada, we are heavily taxed here. I think just this year alone I paid 40, 000 in income tax. And, and donation to charity.

[00:31:21] Nicki: I couldn’t afford to before, and now I make regular monthly donations to charities. And that is so much more valuable and so much more impactful and so much more beneficial than giving somebody an 85 massage when they could afford to pay more if they made it a financial priority.

[00:31:38] Kim: Everything, everything you just said to the degree that you give value, you will be rewarded in return to the degree.

[00:31:49] Kim: And wouldn’t we want the money, more money to get into the hands of responsible people who are helping society. And I think they shortcut themselves when they say it’s not about the money. I just want to help people. You can’t, if you can’t, like you’re actually becoming a burden that someone has to help.

[00:32:06] Kim: If you’re not able to receive money, if you’re not able to, like, have money, have, hold, receive, contain, because then someone has to take care of you. It actually becomes a weight once you’re, you’re not helping in the way the mind thinks it’s helping that. And that’s just old limited stories. And I think we build in a lot of this, I say comes from religion and from generational stuff.

[00:32:31] Kim: It’s like, put others, put all this first when you’re not whole. They are saying that from a perspective of from someone who is whole, I am whole, I am cared for. I am empowered. I have the capacity. To take care of my needs to earn, to do right. I’m empowered. Then you help people think they missed that part.

[00:32:55] Kim: And then we take what’s what we’ve been told about you’re greedy. You’re not like just old messaging and it’s misinformation. And so I love having these conversations. You get heard like for so long and then your voice gets drowned out. Right. So having other people on saying the same thing is where I believe we can create the impact.

[00:33:17] Nicki: Yeah, for sure. There’s definitely a lot of undoing of social conditioning that needs to be done, I think, especially for women. Women are socialized to believe that 100 percent of our self worth comes from being likable, helpful, nurturing and pretty. Really, that’s our job, is to be meek, be quiet, just be grateful for what’s given to us.

[00:33:39] Nicki: Don’t ruffle any feathers. Don’t ask for more. Don’t be greedy. And stay pretty. You know, you should want to help people at your own expense too and make sure everyone likes you. Yeah. And I don’t

[00:33:52] Kim: support any of that. I was listening to what’s her name? That the, the Seinfeld. She has a podcast now. It’s fabulous.

[00:34:00] Kim: Is it Julia Louis Dreyfus? And she’s interviewing these 75, 85 year old women, like Jane Fonda, and they’re, they’re kind of saying this in a different, like, the scream, the time, the air, what women, the hiding, the shame about aging, you don’t see that happening with men. But it is such a huge thing, especially when they’re in everyone’s living room, you know, and then this, all this stuff starts happening, you know, with the body and the hiding and the, they’ve done such fabulous things.

[00:34:31] Kim: And I’m like, if you’re not elevating, you’re gravitating, your gravity is pulling you down. If you’re not fighting up against all of this stuff and staying on the screen and staying up and normalize aging, normalize wisdom, normalize. It’s what it is. And it’s, instead of like going into hiding and getting off the screen and just, you know, throwing the hands up like that, that’s what her podcast represents to me.

[00:34:55] Kim: That’s what it represents is her bringing this, I think it’s called wiser than me. And she’s like, I’m here to attain the wisdom from these wisdom keepers. I love that.

[00:35:06] Kim: Where did your drive for wanting it to be different come from? Is it something, was there oppression in your childhood or in your, in the industry as an adult? Did it come from the music industry?

[00:35:17] Nicki: I think I have such a different approach from most massage therapists because I chose this profession for purely selfish reasons.

[00:35:25] Nicki: It wasn’t to help people. It wasn’t because I’m nurturing. Like, even when I enrolled in massage therapy school, I ran into an old friend. I said, Hey, I’m going to massage therapy school. And he said, you hate people. Like, I’m not a touchy feely, hippie, woo woo kind of person at all. And because I, I really just, I wanted to make my life better because I was suffering financially and I was struggling and I was so depressed and I just wanted a job.

[00:35:52] Nicki: And so, I got into the profession and I got working and I was so excited to, you know, finally be making real money and have a career. And then I looked around and I saw the patterns and I heard the things that people were saying. And I worked for places that didn’t have a cancellation policy. They didn’t require a credit card to book appointments that hadn’t raised their rates for 10, 15 years.

[00:36:15] Nicki: And I saw my colleagues. going overtime on their massages without charging or letting it slide when people cancelled on short notice because they had a good excuse or coming in on weekends and staying late and doing things that they didn’t want to do and putting themselves in uncomfortable situations.

[00:36:34] Nicki: Potentially dangerous situations, working with shady characters, going into strangers homes, this kind of thing. And I just saw all these patterns of behavior that I found really upsetting, but also purely selfishly. I was like, if we can get rid of all this, then my life will get easier. If we can just elevate the overall price of massage therapy and elevate the standards that we hold for our clients, then that’s better for me.

[00:37:07] Nicki: So I started from a purely selfish perspective. How do I make this career easier and better for me? And then realize that in order to do that, I have to sort of convince the 15, 000 massage therapists in Ontario to come along for the ride with me.

[00:37:30] Kim: Right. How have you done that? Podcasts.

[00:37:34] Nicki: Podcasts are huge.

[00:37:35] Nicki: I’m, I’m a regular guest on the Two Massage Therapists in a Microphone podcast, which has international reach. If anybody has listened to the Unpopular Opinions episodes, that’s me. I am highly active in massage therapy, Facebook groups, and. I gave a talk at the Canadian Massage Conference back in September.

[00:37:53] Nicki: Creating my course, Make Money as a Massage Therapist. I’ve written articles. I wrote an article for Massage Therapy Media that should be coming up soon. I wrote an article for Massage Therapy Today, which is an Ontario based publication. I have a blog. NikkiRMT. com forward slash blog.

[00:38:12] Kim: We’ll put link guys.

[00:38:14] Kim: I’ll get you the links. We’ll find one place where she has all of this. Maybe it’s on your social media

[00:38:19] Nicki: being a loud mouth. I’ve been a guest on multiple podcasts and yeah, I just, I give a lot of free advice in, in Facebook groups. For a while I was working alongside my business coach. She has a Facebook group of 15,000 people, and I was admitting that group so.

[00:38:33] Nicki: I’m on YouTube, I’ve done YouTube videos where I talk about the importance of honoring your cancellation policy and how to stay safe as a massage therapist, which is really important to me because it can be dangerous. So I talk about the steps that I take to ensure my safety. I talk a lot about honoring boundaries and Self esteem and money and I’m just I’m everywhere.

[00:38:55] Nicki: I’m all over the place. You can google me and and I’m

[00:38:57] Kim: not hard to find Love it What would you say to that massage therapist who is under earning? Working over at another place like your your client that you’re talking about the contracts and employees What would be something, what would be the very first thing that you’re like, listen up hun, what would that be?

[00:39:18] Nicki: It doesn’t have to be this hard. Success is a decision and it’s not a secret. It leaves clues. And there are people who will gladly tell you how they did it and you might have to pay them. But it’ll be worth it. Yeah, you don’t have to struggle. It does not have to be this hard. I see so many people struggling financially and putting themselves in dangerous situations and working to the point of injury and burnout and wanting to leave the profession because they don’t see another way.

[00:39:52] Nicki: It doesn’t have to be this hard. The speech that I gave at the Canadian Massage Conference. back in the fall was I told people that what the way I see it the two biggest reasons why massage therapists are under earning is because you think you can’t earn more like you just don’t even see it as a possibility which is why I’m so vocal because I’ve had people tell me you can’t make a hundred thousand dollars in private practice They say it as if it’s fact I got it.

[00:40:18] Nicki: Which it absolutely is not, because I am not the only person who’s doing it. So they think they can’t, or worse, they think they shouldn’t. So they might think that it’s possible, oh yeah, I’ve heard of other people doing that, but I don’t want to take advantage of people, that’s greedy, we’re in a recession, we’re in a pandemic, everybody’s struggling, I just want to help people.

[00:40:41] Nicki: All of this fear and guilt and shame around money and earning that I think far more heavily impacts women and people. Of other marginalized communities than it does, you know, straight white men. So if you want more, you have to believe it’s possible. You have to believe you can, and you have to believe you should.

[00:41:02] Kim: Yeah. And I love what you said. You don’t have to like get the help. If you need the help. Like we, we didn’t learn this in school. We didn’t learn this on, at Sunday school. Even much less like public school. You didn’t learn it in college. You’re not, yeah. You, you’re gonna have to learn it from someone who’s done it.

[00:41:18] Kim: That is absolutely about the next. Yeah. I

[00:41:21] Nicki: always say I went to massage therapy school to learn how to become a massage therapist, and then I hired a business coach to learn how to run a business. I’ve also invested thousands of dollars in copywriting courses. In, I became certified as a life coach just to learn how to manage my own emotions and how to achieve my own goals.

[00:41:38] Nicki: I spend a thousand dollars a month at the gym just getting myself into shape. I have invested heavily, heavily in up leveling my entire life and it, it pays. It pays back

[00:41:53] Kim: tenfold. That’s the optimizing your potential. It’s it’s all of us. It’s all of us. It’s our money. It’s our relationships. It’s our body.

[00:42:01] Kim: It’s our mindset. I love all of this. It would be great. I have just got this idea. I was like, we should do a Q and a. So guys, let me know if you would like to do a Q and a and Nikki, if you would be interested in doing that maybe once a month or once a quarter. For, cause now that they’ve heard and they’re hearing that there’s opportunity and potential, then maybe we could answer some questions, you know, come on and do that, whether it’s on social media or back on the show on the podcast I would love to keep in touch and keep moving this through, you know, internationally.

[00:42:31] Kim: It’s, it’s all of us. It’s affecting all of us. And this, this is not a time to take the back seat and wait to see what’s going to happen. It’s a time to, to make the decision. And create what’s going to happen. Absolutely. I love that.

[00:42:45] Nicki: I would love to do Q and a, and it’s exactly, as you said, it’s, it’s, it’s a decision, whatever you want in life, the big three are wealth, health relationship, if you want better interpersonal relationships, if you want more money, and if you want a better physical wellbeing, it all, it all starts with a

[00:43:02] Kim: decision.

[00:43:04] Kim: Yeah. The other thing that you said that I thought was really important. So I have an advanced certified mind, body coach training, right? So, and you said, I became a life coach to manage my own mind there. I see my massage therapists get confused about that being one or the other. And I was like, what you learn when you become a coach, a life coach, a mind, body coach, when you better understand yourself is you become a better individual at the craft you have chosen.

[00:43:30] Kim: You don’t eliminate it’s, that’s why I call it integrative mind, body coaching. So it’s like, this is exactly what Nikki is saying. She’s not leading with, I am a coach. She’s like, I am a massage therapist. I understand through coaching. I better understand myself. I’m better empowered myself. I understand business because I gathered, you know, whether it was through certifications or coaching or mentoring those things, and I think that’s the perfect example of integrative.

[00:43:59] Kim: Mind, body practitioner, that’s you, you’re like, I, I helped myself on all levels. I invested on my, in my mind, I invested in my ability to earn money, to run a business, to write copy, to market that it’s a beautiful example of the integration. But thank you.

[00:44:18] Nicki: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It’s, it’s all connected. And I really do think fitness is a huge part of it too, because I was never, I’m short, I’m five feet tall.

[00:44:27] Nicki: I was a chubby kid. I was never naturally athletic or skilled or coordinated. I was always the shortest and the slowest. I wasn’t good at team sports. And I really embraced fitness in my mid twenties and then really ramped it up last year in particular to get into the best shape of my life. And I’ve been telling people, if you want to succeed in business, get fit, because there is so much overlap in those skills.

[00:44:53] Nicki: Getting fit teaches you commitment, perseverance, grit, delayed gratification, which is huge. Doing things you don’t want to do in order to better your future self. Pushing yourself through discomfort. Achieving goals that you never thought possible. I bench pressed 100 pounds last year. I didn’t think I could do that.

[00:45:15] Nicki: Like. There are so many life lessons and skills and character traits that you develop when you focus on your health and fitness that transfer so nicely into business and will only help you elevate both. I do think they’re very, very connected for me.

[00:45:34] Kim: Agreed. I agree. I was a gym owner. I had a ladies fitness gym from 1999 up until I started the whole coaching thing.

[00:45:41] Kim: And after I love that. Yeah, it’s, it’s definitely where I learned discipline, delayed gratification, consistency, commitment, consistency,

[00:45:52] Nicki: huge. Everyone always asks me, you know, what’s the best workout, the one that you stick to.

[00:45:57] Kim: Right. You could just walk every day. You can just lift a few little hand weights.

[00:46:01] Kim: You can, I love all of this. I love this conversation. I’m excited to feed it to my audience, share it with your audience. Let’s get more massage therapists becoming empowered, making more money. And you know, the whole mind, body energy practitioner world, the whole platform, the, the, all of us together, like to be able to.

[00:46:20] Kim: Elevate ourselves financially is how we’re going to create more impact in the world. I truly believe that, but the work does start with us. We have, you have to grow the owner to grow the business. So thank you for coming

[00:46:31] Nicki: on. Yeah, go ahead. Thank you so much for having me. Oh no, I was just going to say that’s, that’s another just.

[00:46:35] Nicki: And I was having this conversation on the two massage therapists and a microphone podcast, and one of the hosts said you know, do women like your message? Cause it sounds very, you know, girl power, women’s empowerment, like the kind of thing that women would like. And I said, you know, some, but definitely not everyone.

[00:46:52] Nicki: And he said, I don’t, I don’t understand why is that? And the way I see it, if you ask a hundred women. Do you think that women’s empowerment is important? Do you think that we need more women in leadership? Do you think that we need more women CEOs? Do you think we need more women millionaires and billionaires?

[00:47:08] Nicki: Do you think it’s important to close the gender pay gap? Do you think women need more autonomy and freedom? 99 of them will say yes. They’re in favor of that mission. If I say, are you going to do it? Are you going to negotiate your salary if you’re an employee? Are you going to raise your rates if you’re self employed?

[00:47:31] Nicki: Are you going to leave that crappy relationship? 99 of them won’t. Nobody wants to be the person to do it. But how else do we think that these things are gonna happen? It starts with us. Nobody’s just gonna give it to us. Nobody’s just going to walk in and give me a million dollars. If I want that, I have to be the one to go

[00:47:50] Kim: and get it.

[00:47:50] Kim: It makes it so much better anyway. It’s so much funner. Like, and you grow in the process. We would not grow if we opened our mailbox and had that. We’d have to just like, what do we do with this? It’s so much funner. That’s my take on it anyway. Maybe someone else will think differently. But I, I don’t have regrets about my path up until this point.

[00:48:11] Kim: Yeah, me neither. Thank you for coming on. Guys, I’ll put all of her links, all of the information, you’ll know how to find her and hopefully we’ll do a Q and a come back on, kind of do a follow up from this. Anything I missed, Nikki, that you wanted to share before we cut it out?

[00:48:29] Nicki: Girl power.

[00:48:30] Kim: It is girl power.

[00:48:32] Nicki: Be the change you want to see in the world. I I, I appreciate you so much for having me on.

[00:48:37] Kim: And make sure you share this with friends or anyone who’s interested in bossing up, earning more money, helping more people, and creating more impact. Until next week.

Thanks for listening to More Than Mindset.


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