Ep #110: Relationships and Religion

More Than Mindset with Kim Guillory | Relationships and Religion

More Than Mindset with Kim Guillory | Relationships and Religion

Society has this idea that people give up too easily on their marriages. That they are being selfish for not sticking out a relationship that is unhealthy and unhappy. But my guests and I want to call BS on that story.

Chanci Dawn and Lynda Richard are both coaches in Self Healing Masters, and both have experienced divorce. Not surprisingly, they both received the message that ending a marriage was dishonoring God and was harming their children. But is that true?

Join us today as Chanci, Lynda and I explore why people really end marriages and why sometimes the easy way out is staying put. We discuss how our conditioning impacts our beliefs about worthiness, and how religion sometimes reinforces these ideas of martyrdom and self-sacrifice. We encourage you to give yourself the permission you deserve to fully love yourself regardless of your relationship status.

Join me in Self Healing Masters, a program to heal your health, wealth, and relationships. Enrollment gets you lifetime access to my integrated healing approach so you can finally live your life’s purpose and help others. I can’t wait to see you there!

What You’ll Learn from this Episode:

  • How girls and women are conditioned to put themselves last.
  • How the church promotes martyrdom as a sign of virtue.
  • Why divorce is not the easy way out.
  • How staying in an unhappy or unhealthy marriage harms your children.
  • What makes us choose to stay in unhealthy relationships.
  • Why loving yourself wholly should be your first priority.

Listen to the Full Episode:


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Full Episode Transcript:

Welcome to More Than Mindset, the only podcast that bridges the gap between spirituality and success. Go beyond the mind with clarity and confidence coach Kim Guillory and learn how to integrate your passion to serve with your skills and experience to create a business you love. Let’s get started.

Kim: Hey there, and welcome back to the show. I have a couple of guests with me, Chanci and Lynda. And we are going to be talking all about relationship. Relationship with ourselves, with significant others, how we relate with ourself and others. Especially after some of life’s experiences and the stories, meaning the unconscious stories even that we’ve taken away from those experiences and how we’ve set rules going forward.

And I’m going to let Chanci go first and introduce herself and then Lynda, just kind of telling a little bit about who they are and what they do. And then we’re going to dive into some Q&A.

All right. Chanci, welcome.

Chanci: Thank you Kim. This is so great to be back on the podcast, number two. So, yes, my name is Chanci Dawn, and I am an integrative life coach and nutritionist. And my passion is helping women love themselves healthy. And we really dive into a lot of embodiment and pleasure as well as mindset work to be able to really open up their lives. And to help them live their lives with intention rather than default, right? Looking at the conditioning and moving forward and like how do I actually want to feel and live and show up?

Kim: Lynda, tell us a little bit about you and what you do.

Lynda: Hi, I am Lynda Richard. I am a relationship and intimacy coach and I help abuse and trauma survivors create the relationships that they desire. Typically they disconnect themselves from their body and struggle with relationships after experiencing trauma and abuse. So as we heal that they are able to see that being in relationships can be healthy, fun, and deeply intimate.

Kim: All righty, here we go. I want to start off with, like the first question I have is about self-love and worthiness. And what does that look like for someone to give themselves permission to even explore the possibility of what it could be like to fully love and accept themselves? Chanci, you want to get started?

Chanci: Yeah, definitely. This is such a juicy topic of conversation. And I think definitely, you know, when I’m listening to you I’m like, “How do I want to answer this?” It’s International Women’s Day today, and I think, you know, women in particular have really been conditioned to others first everyone comes before you, right? It’s that whole Jesus, others, you, you were just saying that before we got on, Kim. And that’s exactly how I was raised.

And it’s like my pleasure, my worthiness, just everything about me, I was conditioned to believe came last, always. And in school fell through the cracks because I was just trying to people please. And even as an adult 42-year-old woman constantly having to come back to my worthiness. I really deserve to live this life to its fullest and to wake up in joy, right? And a big part of that is coming home to yourself, is acknowledging what that even means to you, and then bringing you back to your wholeness. It’s just so important because women, it is completely conditioned out of us from the youngest age to do the opposite.

Kim: Yeah, I’d like to ask another question just relating, piggybacking on this that’s coming last because like, why? Why do we need to put others first? What were you told? Because I know we were all told something different, but kind of similar. What would happen or why should you not be selfish per se?

Chanci: Right, I was just going to say because it’s selfish. I was just talking to a client earlier today and she was talking about how her partner is like, “You go to the gym an hour and a half a day, that is so selfish.” And she’s like, in her 40s and going, “Yeah, my entire life I’ve been taking care of the kids, raising my stepchild, taking care of my husband, taking care of everyone else. And she’s a nurse on top of it. So nurse nurturing everyone else.

And I think it’s when we’re little, for me, this is what I’ve experienced, and most of my clients, we’re really rewarded for being selfless. Right? Like, even my little daughter, she’s 11, or when she was 11, she came to me and she said, “My number one thing I want to do, mom, is be really kind.” And I was like, “That’s beautiful. And let’s also talk about what that means for yourself. Right? You’re going to be a mom.” And even for me, it was like, “What do you want to be a nurse, or a teacher, or a missionary?” Right?

Taking care of everyone else and not even having it as an option to think of what am I actually here for? What brings me the most joy, the most pleasure? And in that living your fullest life. I believe now everyone else gets to benefit. But selfishness is actually the most selfless thing I believe that we can have. But it takes a lot of reprogramming to understand that for sure.

Kin: Yeah, for sure. So I married someone who had children. And I remember many people telling me I was like surely going to go to heaven. I was earning graces, I was like working my way, you know, all the way up to heaven. And I was like, it didn’t make sense to me personally. Because I felt it was such an honor and a favor to be accepted in this family because what I was looking for was a family.

And so our perception about it was completely different. And I think that’s one of the things that stuck with me is like, well, you’re surely going to go to heaven raising those kids, you know, stuff like that. And I did not see it that way at all. So that’s kind of what you’re saying is like that suffering for heaven. It was as if I was suffering because, you know, I had stepchildren.

Chanci: Yeah, exactly. And I remember once when my previous company, I was in network marketing, and I had received this really esteemed award. And it was women of the company I was with. And I got home, went to church that Sunday, and my pastor came to me and he said, “Oh, I saw you earned this award or whatever.” And I thought he was going to really congratulate me. And I’m like, “Yeah, you know, thank you.” And he’s like, “Does that have anything to do with being a wife or a mother?”

And my heart just sunk because at that moment, I was like, well, first of all, I didn’t realize how much it did have to do with being a mom. Also, I ended up being a single mom supporting my kids. But, you know, I was about to enter into a divorce situation as well. So I just felt like such a failure on all ends. And that threw me for a spin.

It was then that I really actually started to question all of that and find myself. That was eight years ago, and I am a different woman and a freaking amazing mom because of it, because of now, who I am and how I really do prioritize me.

Kim: Interesting. Yes, so good. Lynda, what about you? What’s been your experience about like that selfishness, selflessness, self-care? Or what was the conditioning or the patterns that you were taught about? How should we call it the holy human?

Lynda: Oh my gosh, I have so many, but I remember like being, selfish being… It felt like, growing up, being selfish was one of the biggest sins, like inside of church and outside of church. As kids I just remember like if we didn’t share our toys, if we didn’t share our candy, if we didn’t share our food, then you’re selfish and that’s wrong. And you shouldn’t be that way.

So you’re just always taught it doesn’t matter what you have, you’re supposed to just give it away freely to everybody else. You can’t have anything for yourself, it’s basically community property if somebody else asks for it. So you almost have no ownership over anything in that regard.

Like growing up in church I just remember it being kind of pounded into me, I grew up in the Baptist Church, about putting others first. And we’re called to be servants and our life should be dedicated to serving. And like it was just all about self-sacrifice. And it was almost to the point like for you to be a good enough Christian you had to sacrifice everything. Your happiness, your time, like your whole life is to be sacrificed for others.

And I just find it very, I guess, counterintuitive, because you can’t wholeheartedly serve and give to others when you’re miserable. When you’re exhausted, when you have nothing left to give, what are you going to give? You know, how can you serve others in that state?

And I was that person that, you know, I went to church every Sunday. I went to Bible study; I was leading a women’s small group. Every time a mission serving opportunity came up in church, I was jumping on the list to help. And then I had my family at home also. So like there was never time for myself.

And then when I kind of stepped back and started taking care of myself, going back to school for myself, going back to the gym for myself, they wouldn’t come straight out and say it but, “Oh, so you’re not going to be serving anymore? You don’t have time to help anymore?”

It was almost like demeaning or like criticizing on the slick that I was taking time for myself. Like if I had time to go work out then I should be at the church. If I had time to go get my hair done, or my nails done, or the money to do that, then I should be giving that to the church, you know? And it was like so disheartening that I wasn’t allowed to do what I wanted in my free time with my money and with my time.

Kim: It’s this you aren’t prioritizing God or spirituality or like that, right? Is that the assumption that was being made?

Lynda: Yes.

Kim: Like because you were choosing something else that that must mean that it’s not priority? That must mean that it’s not important?

Lynda: Yeah, absolutely. So if I’m doing something for myself, if I’m making time on my schedule for myself, then I’m pushing God to the back burner. That’s how it always was called. It was like, “Do you have God on the back burner in your life? Is God pushed to the back burner?” It’s like that’s the phrase that was always used growing up in the Baptist Church, was like, you know, “You’ve put God on the back burner and you’re serving yourself now.”

Kim: Chanci, I see you like nodding. Is this something that you’ve heard also?

Chanci: Oh, yeah, for sure. I grew up in a very Pentecostal, very similar to Baptist. It was like so ingrained. It was almost, you know, the martyr, right? There was glory in that. And the more you suffered, or the more you sacrificed, then it’s like the more virtuous you were.

Kim: Yeah, yeah. And I grew up Catholic, right? So you can see that it didn’t matter which organized religion, it’s the theme. Like that’s so interesting.

What about how did this bleed over into your relationships with your partners? Now we’re talking from two different perspectives. So, Lynda, we’re going to come from the being married, and then Chanci being recently out of relationship, right? So just looking back at the relationships in your life can you see how this underlying theme has played out? And could you share with us how do you see that that played a part in who you were, who you showed up as in a relationship with someone else?

Chanci: Oh, my goodness, I remember when I first got married, and the pastor had given us like the sermon. And I was so busy I didn’t take time to read it. And then that day I’m up like, and he’s having our vows and the whole, the entire thing was about obey. The entire thing was about how I must obey my husband. And at one point, I just looked at the pastor, and he’s like, “Yeah, it’s a lot.” And I said, “Yeah.” And I kind of wanted to walk away right then. Like I wanted to be like… I should have. 15 years later I did. But yes, but that really stuck with me, right?

So then I’m in this marriage and I have my own passions, and I have stuff I want to do. But I was married to a military guy, we moved everywhere. My entire life was devoted to taking care of him. And then we had a little girl who had a brain tumor. And none of my stuff, I did not prioritize my health, my well-being at all. It was just like, I got shingles, I burnt out, I got adrenal fatigue, just trying to keep up and taking care of everyone and making sure that my husband was happy. Because if he was happy, then I was like we can all be. And then the marriage fell apart.

And after that I dated for a while. And I got into another relationship quite fast and became a stepmom. So we had five children. And from the very beginning, I knew that this relationship was not the right one for me. He’s an amazing man and a great friend, but it wasn’t like the soul partner relationship that I desire. But I stayed in out of obligation. I’m like, “I’ve brought these kids together. And here’s this man. And now we’re living in the same house. And we have this and I have to take care of this.” And it was just so…

I would wake up every morning in pain and anxiety. And I went to the doctor for all of these tests, like panels and panels of blood tests and trying to figure it out. And it wasn’t until I actually coached with you, released all of this emotion, understood my deeper desires. And then I ended the relationship, all of my body pain went away.

And that’s when I was like, “Whoa, everything was just, everything I knew to be true as far as the importance of prioritizing yourself, not at the expense but because, like you were saying Lynda, like because I need to show up as a mom. Because I need to show up in this life for my clients, for my business, all of this, and ultimately for myself. As soon as that clicked, and I’ve really been embracing that more and more, I just find everything has shifted for me, everything.

And it’s not easy. It’s going through that discomfort of doing that and choosing that and going, “Oh my goodness, people are going to judge me.” Right? Yeah, once again, here I go. Here’s another relationship that I’m not being a good wife and mother, right? But on the other end of it, it’s like, “Oh, such an amazing example for my children. And, you know, now for my clients. And I’m finding living the life that when I wake up in the morning, I’m like, “Yes, this is what I want to be doing. This feels so good.” You know, I just want it for every woman.

Lynda: I was kind of the same way about like, I knew it wasn’t right in a couple instances. I’m on marriage number four. And the first one I was young, dumb, and joining the military. So it was kind of a mutual agreement just to get married so that we could both benefit from it. And then that kind of fell apart and it wasn’t a big deal. But we definitely did “marriage” wrong in that aspect because it wasn’t out of love. It wasn’t for any other reason.

And then marriage number two, I fell in love with another military guy and I got pregnant. So I was so taught, you don’t have a child out of wedlock. It’s like so wrong. So we hopped over to the JP and we got married. And I knew it was a bad relationship from the start, even in dating. But we stayed married for 10 years. Not because I didn’t want to leave that relationship, not because I knew I needed to leave that relationship. Because I was so scared of divorcing because of what I was taught in religion.

Like I was going to be shunned I was going to be like, looked down on for being divorced a second time. My first one was an annulment because we weren’t married that long. But the second one was like, man, you know, it was just, it was so hard to walk away, you know. Not including all the other emotional connections and trauma that kind of held me in that relationship.

But being part of religion and just knowing that divorce is wrong. Like you’re not supposed to get divorced, you’re supposed to do anything and everything you can to make that marriage work. It didn’t matter what he was doing, I was supposed to stay in that marriage. And it was amazing when my eyes finally started opening. Like that decision to divorce wasn’t even my own. If the judge didn’t make that decision for me, I probably would still be in that marriage.

And then the next time around it was again, you know, I hate to say it but, you know, I got pregnant again. I was abstinent for a long time because of my religious beliefs. I stayed abstinent for the longest time. And then one slip up and I got pregnant. One slip up, that’s all it takes. And I got pregnant. We had been in a relationship for quite a while and then I got pregnant.

And we were both in the church. And like when we found out we both freaked out like, “Oh crap.” And he was like, “We got to get married.” And I’m like, “Oh no, I’m not doing this again.” And then like slowly but surely, he finally convinced me that, you know, we had to get married because, you know, it would look so bad in the church’s eyes, and we’re doing it wrong if we don’t get married.

So I gave in to my beliefs that still obviously had a good hold on me and we got married again. I got married for time number three. And that was just like, you know, it was wrong. And then we ended up going our separate ways again. And then it’s so hard, you can marry for the wrong reasons because of ingrained religious beliefs. You can stay in relationships for the wrong reasons because of ingrained religious beliefs. I mean, it can just affect your relationships so tremendously. It’s so crazy how strong those beliefs are like just ingrained in your brain.

Kim: Yeah, that’s two become one, right? That’s it.

Lynda: Yes.

Kim: And then, you know, the other, it’s not your body. Like there’s so much of this stuff that is still in society. I mean, people are still living by these rules.

Chanci: Yeah, it’s crazy. You know, after my divorce I was actually told by a couple people, my dad included, and other people in the church that my duty was to act as if I was still married to my ex. Like, I was not free just because he was moving on. My dad said like, “You have to pretend he’s just away, like in Afghanistan. And you do that until he gets married. If he gets married then that releases you.” Not that I’m free to marry but that releases me from being his wife. I was like, “What?”

And then, like, I would try to date, so much guilt. I would try, you know, anything, it was just like ladened with guilt. And that’s where then I met my partner. We never did get married, but who I was with for five years. And I was like, “Okay, no. I love this man, I’m going to be with this man.” And finally I was free because my ex got married. So I was like, “Okay, here’s someone.” And then I jumped into this relationship, because I finally felt free enough. Instead of asking myself, What do you really want? What really works for you? You know?

And this is now, first time at 42 years do I actually feel free to explore and to date, and to not… I was going to say not feel any guilt, those old patterns still slip in for sure where I’m like, “Oh my goodness, what am I doing?” You know, but then I’m like, “No.” And it’s reprogramming that and then moving purposefully in a new direction, in a way that serves me even when it’s really uncomfortable.

Lynda: Yeah.

Kim: Yeah, it’s so interesting, like Lynda is saying, that it’s like this is wrong, and this is wrong, and this is wrong. And so it’s like, everything is wrong, right? I was 19 years old, I got pregnant and did not get married. And when I met my husband, he had three children and their mom had left. And so us coming together was like, almost like a healing of the abandonment, right? From my son’s dad not being there, their mom not being there. You know, we created this beautiful family, and we had a child together.

And I remember going to the church to see about, you know, getting him baptized and, you know, this stuff. And the priest looked directly at me and told me, like, I was damned to hell. That I was choosing to, like, break these laws, I’ll say, you know. And like it was a conscious decision. And I’m sitting here like, hold on. I was abandoned by a parent. And I can’t imagine that because there’s a rule in this church that says we can’t be together because he was married before… I had never gotten married so I wasn’t wrong here by the way. I just had the baby. So interesting, right?

He married the woman who was pregnant. You know, the situation we’re sitting in, there was no way out. I was like, going to hell, or displeasing God, or breaking this family apart which I loved. You know, it was a beautiful thing for us to all be together. You can imagine this all going on in my 20s. I was just like, “Wait a minute.” Because I wanted to be a nun when I was a kid. So you can imagine how disheartening this was and what a disappointment that I was choosing hell.

And so it was almost kind of that kind of martyr thing, right? So no, I’m going to go ahead and go to hell so that these kids won’t be abandoned again. Can y’all see what I’m saying? Like it was…

Lynda: Oh my goodness, yeah. And there you go you, let me just point this out for a second. You were ready to be so selfless that you would go to hell so that you could help these children not be abandoned.

Kim: Kind of sick, huh?

Lynda: Yeah, like that’s going back to what we were talking about in the beginning, right? It’s like, “Yes, don’t be selfish Kim. Be willing to go to hell for these children.”

Kim: But then it’s wrong. I don’t know, it was so deep. And I was trying everything to be accepted in the church, to be able to go to Communion. You know, we tried to do the whole annulment thing, but it wasn’t my part it was his. And I don’t know, it was just like a nightmare.

But anyway, there comes a time where you’re just kind of, it’s almost like being squeezed out of the tube of toothpaste, right? You’re just like being squeezed out of this conditioning. And it’s really about the, I call the work that we do the gospel embodied. Rather than it being God being in the church kind of thing. Like it’s the actual relationship, you know, with consciousness, with spirit, with divine.

So this takes me to the next question, which is about… I remember I had a client here, and someone I love dearly was going through a divorce and she was my high school teacher. She’s, you know, quite a bit older, but she was on the exercise bike. And she says how the kids just take the easy way out these days.

And I’m sitting here like wait a minute, she takes the easy way out because she sees this is not correct? And he said, “I’d just as soon have hired a whore than have gotten married.” Like this is taking the easy way out? No, the easy way out is to shut up and stay. The easy way out is not to stand up for yourself. That is hard.

Just like you said Chanci, it’s that tearing apart, breaking apart. We have tentacles in these relationships, you know, like our energy is invested in this. So whenever someone says that, like “Oh, people today just get divorced. They just take the easy way out.” Guys, do you think it’s easy to get a divorce? Do you think it’s easy to end a relationship? Even if there’s not abuse. Yeah, I’m just going to let you each take a turn on that one.

Chanci: Yeah, no, the first relationship I was in it definitely needed to happen, right? As far as like, mental, emotional, physical health. It still wasn’t easy at all. And the second one, oh ending things with my last partner was excruciatingly difficult, excruciatingly. Still is.

Kim: Because there was no abuse. There was no beating. There was no misbehavior, right?

Chanci: Yeah.

Kim: It’s so much harder when they haven’t done anything and you just know it doesn’t work.

Chanci: Yeah, it was like, “Why do I want to leave?” Because I want to, and that’s enough. And actually owning that, that that is enough and I’m worth it, oh, even right now I’m talking, I have butterflies because I’m still working on embodying that belief that I am enough to move forward in the way that I want to in my life just because I want to. It doesn’t have to be because I’m being beaten behind the door.

Kim: And what about the part of, “Oh, but he’s so kind I need to stay because I might not be able to find anything better.” Like what about that part?

Chanci: Huge, huge, totally. It’s like, “He loves me so much, will I ever find someone who will love me this much again?” And you know what? What came to me in this is, you know, I might not. I might not find someone outside of me who loves me as much as he did. But I love myself more. I’m finding that love inside of me. Not looking outside for that love that I’m so deserving of, it’s like it comes from me first. And that is when I was able to move forward. And with the acknowledgment of if I never find another partner to love me that much again or more, I’m going to be just fine because I have my own back.

Kim: So good. How about you, Lynda? Is it easy to end a relationship whether it’s good or bad, or just doesn’t work? Like what’s been your experience?

Lynda: Whether married or just dating like, it doesn’t matter. When you develop a connection, an emotional connection with somebody it’s hard to just sever that and walk away. Whether there’s bad stuff going on in the relationship or not you still have some sort of emotional connection to that person. So just to walk away is almost unheard of, to just like drop it. Because even if you turn into another relationship, stuff still reminds you of that person. Stuff still brings up good feelings about that person. I mean, stuff still connects you to that person emotionally, mentally.

But then in marriage, like I’ve had it both ways where I’ve had like the abuse and trauma, and it was like everybody is screaming leave him. And it’s like, it’s still hard. Whether it’s because of religious beliefs, or the emotional connection to that person, or doubled up, you know, on that fact it’s hard to walk away.

Whether it’s the fear of being judged and shamed for religious beliefs. Or whether your abuser has created this idea in your head that you will never find someone, like you’re not good enough to ever find somebody else, that you might as well stick around with me. Or whether it’s just that I know there’s a good person in there, just let me stay a little bit longer so I can fix them.

Kim: So there’s society judging, there’s religious, then this personal, this personal part. What other aspects are you guys like whenever this consideration is going on? It’s like everything is against either way, right?

Chanci: Yeah. And a big part is the children too. You know, needing to stay for the kids. And I remember in my marriage, after my first was born I was like, “Well, now I have to stay.” And then I had a second, I’m like, “Shoot, I wish I would have left when I just had the one and now I have two.” And then I had the third I’m like, “Oh crap, here now I have three, I could have left when I just had two.” Right? And then I left with the three and I was like, “Oh my gosh, I can do this.” Hard, but I did it.

But I hear so often stay together for the kids, stay together for the kids. And I think, for me, having a mom who is not loving herself to the extent that she deserves is the most harmful thing I could have done for my children. Is to stay in a situation where I was not wanting to be in, for whatever reason, to show my daughter that she needs to compromise in her life, and to show my sons that as well. But mainly my daughter, right? I’m looking at this wonderful little girl and I’m like, “I want her to know she is worthy of showing up for herself all the time.”

And now I look at my kids and they are thriving. I don’t think, you know, in spite of the fact that they’ve gone through the divorce and now another breakup, but I think a big part of it is because of it. Because of how I’ve had to rise up for myself and get so much coaching and so much support. And they benefited from that. The little people who they are, they blow my mind. My daughter will not put up with the same crap I did, guaranteed. It’s really cool.

Kim: Yeah. And so it’s like this age thing, right? We wait until the kids get older so the kids can handle it. That shit don’t work. It is not easier when the kids are older. And then this is kind of interesting, so the three of us talking and having this conversation, we’re all three, 6/2’s, we’re all role models. Do you really think that you could live and be in that circumstance and not be role modeling that for your children?

Chanci: Oh my gosh, that’s where I wanted to hit on. When you said, “Stay in it for the kids.” I was like, “Oh my gosh, I can’t believe how many times I heard that.” And then the longer I got, like once I got out of that abusive relationship I was like, “I was doing more harm to my kids than good by staying in that relationship.”

And I just got praised, I went to a wedding this weekend and my son is 16. And I got praised on how well behaved he is, how respectful he is, like what a young gentleman he is, how he treats his little girlfriend. And they’re like, you know, “How did you do that?” And I’m like, “Well, you know, I left somebody who I allowed to treat me poorly. And I ended up with somebody who treated me right. And I didn’t stay with people who didn’t treat me well.”

So he realized that, you know, this is how you treat a female. And so by staying in the bad relationship I was modeling what men can do if they wanted to, and what women should put up with, you know. And then by getting into a new relationship, where we have a mutual respect for each other he sees what a good healthy relationship should look like. And now he is modeling that same behavior with his 16-year-old little girlfriend. It’s so sweet to watch.

Kim: That’s so good. This is why we do it. And isn’t it interesting? Like you guys are like, “Yeah, stay for the kids.” And I’m like, “Oh, I had to leave for the kids. Like this doesn’t make sense.” I don’t know if it’s just the churches, beliefs, or you know, what we experienced for who we are today. You know, who the heck knows? But I do think touching on the part about society saying, like, everyone leaves, everyone gives up. It’s so easy to walk away. Y’all, I think that’s BS.

Chanci: Oh, for sure.

Lynda: Absolutely. It absolutely is.

Chanci: It’s hard either way. You know, it’s hard to stay in a relationship and it’s hard to leave a relationship. And I think what matters is that you keep checking back and that you don’t abandon yourself, right? You get to choose the hard either way, and if you choose to stay make sure you’re staying for the right reasons. Make sure that you’re staying because you’re coming closer to who you are in your essence. Instead of like, the shoulds, outside of you.

Lynda: And I think that like a lot of times when we stay, it’s because we’ve gotten so comfortable with being uncomfortable in that situation, that the fear and the unknown of what that discomfort is going to feel like by walking away is a little overwhelming. So we already know what this looks like, we already know what this comfort and unhappy looks like. We don’t know what that looks like outside of it once we walk away. So I think kind of fear of that as well kind of keeps us tied into those relationships.

Kim: It’s hard to see what you haven’t experienced yet. And I know for myself, I was looking everywhere for evidence and proof of it to be, I have not seen it even today. I’ve not seen the relationship that I want or desire. And like the example of it, in other words.

So I was in business already and I was working on all of these women’s hair and nails and stuff. And they had been married for 20, 30, 40 years. They were like the pillars of the community kind of thing. But I didn’t want what they had. Like they were not role modeling what I was trying to figure out how to, like how do we stay married? How do we figure this out? You know, and I was not seeing it. I read the books; I asked a lot of questions. You know, we tried a lot of things. And I think it’s that if we don’t love ourselves first, then we don’t show someone else how to treat us.

Chanci: Yeah, I love that so much. And right now as a single woman, what I’m doing as far as that is I’m creating myself a love altar. I’ve heard a lot, like create a love altar to attract in your magical person, right? Your soulmate. But I’m creating like a love altar for myself representing like, first I broke my whole intention of what it looks like to show up fully for who I am. Like, how does a woman who is so in love with herself live? So I wrote all of that.

And now I’m creating this beautiful altar with like shells that I’m collecting and candles and, you know, things that really symbolize this level of love for me. Because it’s like I want to love myself so much that if I do get into another relationship, I’m coming in there so certain of who I am, what I want, what do I want to attract, and what I want to create. More of what I already have, right? If you’re loving yourself to that extent, then you get to welcome someone in and be like, “Let’s create more of this together. And this is what it looks like, and this is how it feels like to me.” \

Kim: That’s so good. Yeah, love that.

Lynda: I love that.

Kim: So we’re coming to a close. So what I want to do is let you guys just leave something for the audience. Chanci for you, it’s just leading them into the love themselves to healthy.

Chanci: Yeah.

Kim: And for Lynda it’s that permission, right? It’s that permission to allow intimacy back in the relationship after trauma, after, you know, all of these experiences. So I just want to open the mic for you guys to take each a turn. And what would you tell someone who doesn’t even know the first step? They’re actually just hearing for the first time that it’s a possibility, and we’re giving them permission to explore that there could be more.

Chanci: So what I recommend, and this is one of the starting points, sometimes even women who are listening to this, it’s like, “Love myself? What are you talking about? I don’t even like myself. I can’t even stand myself right now.” And instead of thinking that you have to go all the way there, which might feel so foreign, it’s like, a nice little ladder step is how do I respect myself today? Instead of going to that, how can I accept myself? How can I appreciate myself? How can I respect myself?

And respect usually resonates with a lot of women I’m working with. They can’t get to the love part but they’re like, “I know what it feels like to respect.” And when I show up for myself with respect, how do I take care of myself? One of it is acknowledging your deeper desires and how you want to feel. And then from there, little baby steps forward, you’ll get to the point of like that deep self-love for sure.

Kim: I love that, and you coached on this in Self Healing Masters and it was so powerful. That was something that we got so much feedback on is they couldn’t see it either, you know. And they were like, “But I can do that. I can do that.” And how much things have changed for them just on that, you know, just you introducing the concept and giving them the space to be able to place that first board on the bridge for getting there.

Chanci: Yeah.

Kim: Yeah, thank you. That’s great. Lynda, how about you?

Lynda: So for me, I think that I would just want to encourage anybody out there that’s hearing this to just kind of be aware of when you’re allowing your partner or significant other to be the one that loves you whole or loves you to being a whole person. Because we’re not in control of them, or what they do, or if they stay. And if they are what’s fulfilling you, if they are what’s making you feel loved and whole and they leave, then you’re back missing a piece again.

So it’s just recognizing that you have the ability to be completely whole within yourself by loving yourself, wholly, as you are. And that gives you the power because when you put whether you’re lovable or worthy in somebody else’s hands you no longer have the power over how you feel. They have the power over how you feel.

Kim: That’s so important. And I do think that we’re at a point now, I mean, there’s just been so much experience under the bridge, right? And that now with social media being so open and being able to speak to other cultures, you know, and not being… I don’t want to bash religion, it’s the perception of what’s being taught when we have these Christ centered, loving people who really just want to serve and to please God. It’s like we need to demystify humanity. Like, “Listen, we’re human, we have emotions, we have sensations, we have desires, we want to be pleased.” But it’s like everything has been taught that it’s wrong, which leaves you just kind of lost.

And so I think conversations like this are so important to start just exploring the possibility of permission of self-care, self-love, selfishness, you know? And starting there and using the joy instead of it being Jesus, others, and yourself. And I know, what’s the word that they say? I’ve been like bashed for saying this, I actually received some Facebook messages about it. It’s like what if it were a triangle? And what if we saw it as interchangeable, you know, ourself, others, and Jesus? Consciousness and this love that flows through us freely, this grace that flows through us freely is, you know, being able to have that dance with the J-O-Y? What do you guys sense with that?

Lynda: Yeah, it’s like the harmony of it. It’s not a ladder or a stair step of you have to do one to get to the next. It’s how you fit it all together and harmonize that so that it turns into something beautiful.

Kim: Chanci, anything else before we?

Chanci: Yes, the one thing that really set me free, I felt, was last January I was in Cabo at this retreat, right before all the things with COVID. And I was in the hot tub and this wonderful woman who I was co-doing this retreat with, she did this healing touch. And I could hear the water. And I remember thinking right before, I was like, “I just want to know that I’m safe to trust myself, and that God knows my heart.” And I remember thinking that, that was one of the things I went there really wanting to embody.

And we are in there and I can hear this water. And I thought to myself, I’m like, “Oh, it feels like a second baptism.” And then she said, right after she’s like, “I don’t usually, like talk or feel like I’m giving a message,” she’s like, “but I really feel like God wants you to know that he or she sees your heart and that you can trust yourself.” And she said, the exact thing that I was in my brain there, hadn’t shared with the world.

Even right now I have goosebumps, because that was permission from God to me that I’m on the right track. So I know what I’m doing. I believe that what I’m doing and the work I’m doing in this world and with my clients, this is my mission. I believe that I am here to help women break these chains that have been like holding us down and dulling our sparkle. I’m tired of that for women. I’m tired of it. And I so when God told me that through this beautiful woman, I was just like, “Here I go, watch me.”

Kim: I’m here for it all, bring it.

Chanci: Yes.

Kim: I remember like my prayer was always, “Create a clean heart in me oh Lord.” Because I was never clean enough. I was never pure enough. I was never good enough. And I don’t know how many years really that was my mantra, that was my mantra. But what I didn’t recognize is I was trying to find this perfection in humanity that doesn’t exist by turning off my human desires, by turning off like just anything that may be a touch of sinfulness, right? Because I was trying to do like we do with everything else, I was trying to perfect, and I don’t think that’s it at all. I’m like, “Hold on, that Jesus dude in that robe hanging out, like I’m sure he was out in the jungle doing some stuff, right? Out in the garden.” And it’s really like how can we collaborate with life, you know, with all of it? How can life be, you know, present the catalyst of transformation and growth and evolving? You know?

Anyway, I want to thank you for coming on. This will not be the last time you hear from these gals. We’ve got some great stuff going on in the More Than Mindset group. They’re teaching in self-healing masters. You can find us on Clubhouse, we have a club called More Than Mindset. So, same name as the podcast, you can find us on Facebook and the community where you can come and hear all of the coaches, the integrative coaches are teaching, doing master classes. They’re now collaborating together in teaching on specific topics. They do Q&A’s. We’ve got some really cool stuff coming on. I want to invite you guys to come over there. And until next week, I want to thank you for coming again, I appreciate it.

Chanci: Thank you.

Lynda: Thank you for having us. It was so much fun.

Kim: It’s so much funner to do with others.


Chanci: Oh yeah.

Lynda: Absolutely.

Thanks for listening to this episode of More Than Mindset.

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